2018 Elections update.

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Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
Maybe it is a question of equal access. My cousin, a police officer, once said that he thought the police and criminals should have the same "weapons". Certainly better than the militarization of our police forces that was seen after excess spending in the Homeland Security budget.

That's pretty darn close. And I agree re the ill-conceived militarization of the police. Remember when they carried .38 revolvers and had a 12 gauge shotgun in the patrol car? Sure, I'd go back to those days. How do we get there?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2018 - 01:30pm PT
Lituya! Per your thoughts:

And I agree re the ill-conceived militarization of the police. Remember when they carried .38 revolvers and had a 12 gauge shotgun in the patrol car? Sure, I'd go back to those days. How do we get there?


It's interesting to read that you share the far-right dream of being better armed than the police.

My memories, have the cops all adopting automatic pistols & putting assault rifles in their cars, started with this game-changing incident.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-north-hollywood-shootout-revisited-20170223-htmlstory.html

Feb 28, 1997

It began as just another gorgeous L.A. day. Then, shortly after 9 a.m., a spectral scene of combat popped onto TV screens across the city.

Two armor-clad figures standing calmly outside a bank were spewing machine gun fire at a swarm of police officers shooting back with pistols from behind car doors and trees.

Within minutes, the parking lot outside the Bank of America on Laurel Canyon Boulevard in North Hollywood was on television screens across the country, as disbelieving viewers watched the battle unfold on live feeds from network helicopters circling overhead.

For 44 minutes, out-gunned officers engaged the bank robbers, dodging barrages of high-powered bullets, rescuing their wounded and peppering their targets with hundreds of shots that bounced off harmlessly.

Gradually their shots probed openings in their adversaries’ armor as a SWAT team arrived from afar to equalize the firepower. The North Hollywood shootout ended with the two perpetrators — Larry Eugene Phillips Jr., 26, and Emil Dechebal Matasareanu, 30 — dead in the street. Eleven officers were wounded, but none killed.
WBraun

climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 01:36pm PT
Some cars have shotgun with armor piercing rounds.

Fully automatic assault rifle.

And non-lethal bean bag round shotgun

Plus standard issue sidearm and taser.

Ready for bad guys like Fritz ...... :-)
Jim Clipper

climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 01:43pm PT
It's interesting to read that you share the far-right dream of being better armed than the police

I won't speak for him. I'd love to hear his experience. Still, I think he was saying the opposite.

Being first to step forward, while standing down, or maybe just standing ready?

Anyway, my cousin worked on an island with a history of colonialism and the consequent unequal division of technology and resources integral to it. His statement about having the same weapons was maybe somehow related. He and my uncle could be like that.

edit:
How do we get there?

At least, it seems that some have been sung across the divide. And apparently vote?! (from the happiegirl below)
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 01:47pm PT
Just saw that Kyrsten Sinema has won Senate race in Arizona - First Democrat AZ Senator in a quarter century!
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Nov 12, 2018 - 01:56pm PT
Remember when they carried .38 revolvers and had a 12 gauge shotgun in the patrol car? Sure, I'd go back to those days. How do we get there?

You should ask Wayne LaPierre about that.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 03:15pm PT
It's interesting to read that you share the far-right dream of being better armed than the police.

Not sure why you’d think that. As usual, Fritz, it’s all about what you think you know.

As Jim noted above, I was, in fact, saying just the opposite. Yes, citizens should be equally armed re the police. When did the arms race start—and who started it? Who cares.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 12, 2018 - 04:37pm PT
Hillary 2020??!!

Former Clinton adviser says Hillary will run in 2020
By CAITLIN OPRYSKO 11/12/2018 08:40 AM EST

Two-time Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton will mount a third bid for the White House, longtime Clinton adviser Mark Penn wrote in an op-ed published Sunday by The Wall Street Journal, predicting that the former first lady and secretary of state is readying a "Hillary 4.0" campaign for 2020.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/clinton-aide-2020-run-983684
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Nov 12, 2018 - 04:39pm PT
Looks like Trump gets re elected.

HS
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Nov 12, 2018 - 05:22pm PT
When did the arms race start—and who started it?

Perhaps Wayne LaPierre can tell you who expedited it.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 05:49pm PT
Are you sure? Cuz this is bullsh#t.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 12, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
So who amongst the various Democratic senators, governors, or possibly congresspersons would do?

Cory Booker is presentable, plenty of charisma
Beto O'rourke has earned street cred, but probably to early for him
Kamala Harris, Well prepared for battle and a great litigator
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
I sigh for those who advocate that police & civilians should be equally armed.

I sigh for those who are shocked the police now have armored cars & machine guns.

However, those who advocate, or wish for an armed & ready to revolt right-wing militia, want to face civil authorities on an equal or better footing.

And of course, let's guess what political party advocates that everyone have armor-piercing bullets!

US agency drops efforts to ban armor-piercing bullets
11 March 2015
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-31827249

Bullets that are able to pierce police officers' protective vests will remain legal in the US after a proposed ban met with a fierce opposition from gun rights activists.

The Obama administration sought to ban certain types of ammunition used in the popular AR-15-style rifles.

Many armor-piercing bullets used in handguns are illegal under the Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act.

But rifle bullets have long been exempt.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) argued that high-powered, pistol-like rifles didn't exist when the law was enacted in 1986 and therefore some rifle bullets also should banned as well.

The rule change would have affected only "M855 green tip" or "SS109" rounds with certain types of metal core projectiles.

More than 50 US senators wrote to the ATF protesting against the proposed ban.

"If law-abiding gun owners cannot obtain rifle ammunition, or face substantial difficulty in finding ammunition available and at reasonable prices because government entities are banning such ammunition, then the Second Amendment is at risk," the senators said in the letter.

On Tuesday, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte, a Virginia Republican, said he was "pleased that the Obama administration has abandoned its attack on the Second Amendment",

Just suck up the reality you made, conservatives. You advocate having your folks ready to do battle with civil authories.

Why deny it, or try to weasel around it, the NRA doesn't.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 12, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
Cory Booker is presentable, plenty of charisma
Beto O'rourke has earned street cred, but probably to early for him
Kamala Harris, Well prepared for battle and a great litigator

I am Sparticus Booker

Miguel O'Rouke

Kamala "you can't handle the truth" Harris

Good candidates. Every one.

Maybe throw Alexandria "I am more smarter than you" Ocasio-Cortez into the mix.

The Democrats need to decide if their platform is moderate or far left.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 12, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
Moderate or far left...that leaves a lot of ground in the middle. Democrats need to bring back their natural base of blue collar workers who have been voting against their best interests because of polarizing side issues. The midterms showed they are on the right path.
Trump’s total inadequacies and blatant racisim will deliver minorities and educated whites to the democrats.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 08:43pm PT
I hear Gillibrand is thinking about 2020. Not my first choice--but she and Uncle Joe are the only sane candidates I've heard about from the D side.

On the R side, I hope Kasich makes another go in the primaries.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 08:46pm PT
Just suck up the reality you made, conservatives. You advocate having your folks ready to do battle with civil authories.

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2018 - 08:56pm PT
Lituya?

Posting a photo of me having fun celebrating Judge Wichell's 1800's patriotic photo on an obscure peak in the Sierras, doesn't help your NRA cause.


Just suck up the reality you made conservatives. You advocate having your folks ready to do battle with civil authories.

Why deny it, or try to weasel around it, the NRA doesn't.

I obviously, am not ready to do battle.
Jim Clipper

climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 09:06pm PT
Labels may largely depend on your perspective.

I sigh for those who advocate that police & civilians should be equally armed.

I sigh for those who are shocked the police now have armored cars & machine guns.

However, those who advocate, or wish for an armed & ready to revolt right-wing militia, want to face civil authorities on an equal or better footing.

Wanting may be key? History is complicated.



Fritz, let's repatriate some diamonds, support international inter-racial adoption, lobby for reduced cost AIDS and TB treatment. You could tell stories about the history of homesteading in Idaho. Lituya, I realize no guarantees, but could you help with security?

Alternately, there were tours in Oakland that visited sites that where significant events in the Black Panther Movement occurred. I may be able to host.

Stories are being lost. In places at a disproportionate rate. They should be heard and recorded. How do we get there?

Edit: historical exercise of 2nd amendment rights
Lituya

Mountain climber
Nov 12, 2018 - 09:20pm PT
Well, before we talk I'm gonna need Fritz to lower his weapon, s-l-o-w-l-y drop that hammer, and then remove his finger from the trigger guard. If he can't safely handle a revolver, I shudder to think of him bumbling with a 1911.

You advocate having your folks ready to do battle with civil authories.

Civil authorities have a history of alarmingly frequent incivility. So yes, Fritz, you are basically right.
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