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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 11, 2017 - 11:50am PT
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I found this ad timely and telling...
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jul 11, 2017 - 12:01pm PT
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Put another way, while athleticism is required to be a good climber, it is absolutely not sufficient to be a good climber
An observation a long tine coming. When I started in 1953 I was 145 lbs and 6'1", but within a couple of years of gymnastics was up to 175 lbs, which made me feel good, more manly and far more athletic. But it wasn't the best path to difficult rock climbing.
How does a silverback go about chest thumping with all that gut in the way?
Poor woman has a hopeless fixation with paunchy men. If she keeps looking she'll find the right guy.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jul 11, 2017 - 12:26pm PT
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My wife and I had a conversation along these lines this past weekend. We were watching the Tour de France and she asked if there was a women's tour as well. IIRC, there used to be, but I'm not so sure about now. The conversation broadened to coverage of women's sports and whether or not there were any sports that women were generally better at than men/ sports where the women's competition was more popular than the men's. I was stumped.
Gymnastics? Probably.
Tennis? Probably a draw.
Figure skating? I said yes, but my wife said pairs, so a draw.
That's all I've got. For what it's worth, my wife is taller than me and plays basketball in men's league. The only woman. She's been doing this for two years and has always been the worst player on the team. She gets dispirited, yes, but yet she perseveres.
She's got more gumption than I do and it constantly impresses me.
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BigB
Trad climber
Red Rock
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Jul 11, 2017 - 12:37pm PT
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womens volleyball is def more watched then mens
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 11, 2017 - 02:09pm PT
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No question that women rule in mud wrestling.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Jul 11, 2017 - 02:28pm PT
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Brandon, have you ever watched beach volleyball?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2017 - 03:00pm PT
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Now we're talking
I f*#king love you. Lol
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Jul 11, 2017 - 03:09pm PT
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He was quoting Susan, and calling bs on her judgement that I think women are generally inferior. Which is, in fact, bullsh#t.
When did I say that? Or are you projecting again?
Susan
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Jul 11, 2017 - 06:33pm PT
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You said that in the post you deleted.
No, I did not delete anything. I can't even think of a time I deleted a post on ST.
If that's what you want to believe there's nothing I can do to prove otherwise so we just leave it at that.
Sayonara.
Susan
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jul 11, 2017 - 07:53pm PT
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Recently the media has harped on this interview of John McEnroe, as if he should apologize.
Retired tennis great John McEnroe describes Serena Williams as the best female tennis player in the world in his new memoir, "But Seriously," but during a Sunday interview he was asked more by NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro.
Host: "Let's talk about Serena Williams. You say she is the best female player in the world, in the book."
McEnroe: "Best female player ever, no question."
"Some wouldn't qualify it, some would say she's the best player in the world," Garcia-Navarro challenged McEnroe on the subject of Williams, whose 23 Grand Slam singles titles are the most in the Open era (since 1968). "Why qualify it?"
"Oh!" McEnroe replied. "Uh, she's not, you mean, the best player in the world, period?"
"Yeah, the best tennis player in the world," Garcia-Navarro said. "You know, why say female player?"
"Well because if she was in, if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world," McEnroe said. " ... That doesn't mean I don't think Serena is an incredible player. I do, ...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2017 - 10:10pm PT
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Serena is one of the top 5, maybe 3 most dominant athletes in a main stream sport who ever lived. Her, Kelly Slater, maybe a few others. No one in Tennis has been as dominant for as long with as great a track record against the best competition offered, for almost 20 years, in a sport with millions of participants.
Gender don't play a role in that. She might be the best that ever lived.
Its about like competition, pound for pound. You would never say that Deontay Wilder is a 'better' boxer than Floyd Mayweather just because he has almost 75 pounds on him. Floyd beats like competition better than anyone else.
Well, except Serena.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 11, 2017 - 10:22pm PT
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It was a stupid question. Did the interviewer really think Serena could beat the top men?
The interviewer didn't clarify the question after McEnroe answered so it seems she thought Serena could beat the best men.
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c wilmot
climber
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Jul 12, 2017 - 06:31am PT
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s. No one in Tennis has been as dominant for as long with as great a track record against the best competition offered,
Ummm...our Russian friends informed the world why:
"Serena Williams, world's top tennis player, is taking oxycodone and hydromorphone (opioids), prednisone, prednisolone, and methylprednisolone as well."
Do as we say not as we do...
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jul 12, 2017 - 10:27am PT
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I think the reason may of these conversations end up just circling the wagon is that people - men and women - are generally driven to issues by personal wants ranging from, "I want to be right," which is very common, to, "I want to dictate the terms by which you consider me," to, "I don't want to be profiled as this or that," to, "I don't want creeps always leering at me," to, "I want to be able to judge you but don't you dare judge me." And the list goes on. The REASONS a person wants this or that are both personal and universal, since we males and females belong to subsets of being human.
The problem is that when someone exclusively harps on the universal, the issues at large, we might understand the themes but we miss the personal ethos that usually drives the conversation. And it's the personal aspect that leads us to deeper understanding because only in this way is a theme or issue embodied, and it's much easier to understand a person than it is to understand the world.
I remember screenwriter Paul Haggis saying that whenever he writes a scene he always asks, "What does this scene mean PERSONALLY to the characters."
Someone just flogging an issue, no matter now important, is small beer compared to the person who gives us personal reasons to feel or think or act the way he or she does.
And so in regards to the feminist strains that run through this thread, when someone goes off, from either side, I ask myself: "What does this person want, and why?"
Unfortunately, once an issue reaches the boiling point, the personal often gets lost, thought the hotter it gets, the more personal the issue is for the person who, ironically, often never lets on what the issues means to them personally.
In this way we are able to hide behind issues - and circle the wagon.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 12, 2017 - 11:20am PT
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Is it a coincidence that Serena, the best female player by far, has a physique that is the most "manly" of any significant female tennis player,
by far (bulging arms and legs that I think would make even Warbler proud)?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jul 12, 2017 - 11:50am PT
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Honesty is a personal virtue, so the honest thing to clearly say regarding an explosive issues is: This is what I want, not, this is how you should act of how you should think. The normal way is to make the judgements about others personal, while withholding your personal stakes in the matter. I say flip that equation and start with yourself, THEN work out to the rest of the world.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jul 12, 2017 - 02:21pm PT
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This debate about whether female climbers are oppressed and held back by male climbers needs to be based on facts and reality (honesty) first, political correctness second, to be effective in satisfying both sides.
Thing is, Kev, what gives these issues and threads liftoff is rarely just the issue or the facts - at least not alone, in any kind of purely objective way. And what's more, the objective is drawn entirely from the subjective, by what people feel and think and believe in.
Those beliefs etc. are not observer-independent data streams as science maintains per measurable external objects. These issues have to do with people, and what fires a person up who reads these threads is their personal reaction to the issues trotted out, or jammed int their face.
Trying to unpack such explosive stuff on purely objective grounds is a worthwhile philosophical exercise, but if you want to understand and directly relate to the crux of it you have to know what fires a persons interests and passions in the first place.
Positing some abstract take on facts and reality removes us from the boiling pot. True, if we only watch the pot boil it's nothing but drama. But once people start piping up on their personal stakes in the issue, specifically, what it means to them personally, then a mere shouting match can turn into a personal conversation. And to me, that the value of these threads.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2017 - 02:54pm PT
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However, every now and then a competitor seems to transcend the competition brackets to become the Greatest of All Time
Damn straight. That's that mythical Kelly Slater, Floyd Mayweather spot. Ali was more a cultural icon than the greatest boxer of all time but I could see the argument.
Wilmont seems content to sound ignorant. Yup, no one else takes PED's. You are out of touch with main stream athletics my friend, take a step away from the blogs and into the real world 😘😘😘
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jul 12, 2017 - 03:37pm PT
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Nicely said Largo.
My personal stake is that I'm raising a black daughter in a society where people have learned to perceive that 5 year old black girls are less innocent and less in need of protection than 5 year old white girls, despite those little white girls having 13 times the wealth of the little black girls.
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/news/press-releases/Black-Girls-Viewed-As-Less-Innocent-Than-White-Girls-Georgetown-Law-Research-Finds.cfm
And sure, people in human societies probably learn to perceive things about the differences between males and females, too. It's not all just about what delicate innocent little flowers those white 5 year old girls are.
For me, Serena is my favorite athlete ever.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Jul 12, 2017 - 03:43pm PT
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My personal stake: my (now) wife was wearing booty shorts when I met her in a climbing gym!
When I swooped when I saw she needed a belay partner was it a microaggression or a valid response to a subtle invitation? How is the modern man to know???
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