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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Aug 24, 2018 - 01:28pm PT
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Edward! Re your question:
Okay Folks. I'm gonna ask for a little clarification. I admit last night's meme was in bad taste. Clearly offensive. Definitely, loose on the facts. But I didn't see it as racist. I'm not looking for a conflict. Just clarification.
What specifically was racist?
This is the cartoon you posted. I am not even-close to being politcally correct, & in spite of having had a black business partner & some black friends 35 - 45 years ago, I have lived in "whitie-land" ever since.
But, I see it as clearly racist, when a white-man posts a cartoon about a man that our society percieves as black & states "he pretends to be black" and that cartoon states that the black man, who claims to be both Christian, & an American citizen, is neither.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 24, 2018 - 01:46pm PT
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Is half white and pretends to be black
Bringing up race in a negative way, saying he’s pretending to be another race when he’s been forthright about his background and just being who he is.
Incites blacks against whites.
Again bringing up race in a negative way. Stoking racial fear of whites against blacks without any evidence. Contrary to how he’s acted. His moms side is all white why would he incite against them.
Born in Kenya.
Plenty of evidence he was born in Hawaii. Including an announcement in the newspaper when he was born. What did someone travel back in time and plant that? That would not happen to a white guy.
Maybe it’s not technically racism (claiming a race is inferior) it’s just “racially charged language“ as they say, but most people think of racism as disparaging someone in a racial way which this clearly does.
It’s also about context. I remember people not understanding why it was racist to compare the Obamas to apes but it wasn’t to compare W Bush to a chimp. Well white people dont have a history of being claimed as not fully human or less evolved.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Aug 24, 2018 - 01:59pm PT
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B. Report to the Attorney General, recommending that charges be laid against Trump and/or that impeachment proceedings begin.
C. Lay charges against Trump, and let the courts decide.
This is what you seem unwilling to accept:
Mueller is a part of the Justice Dept.
And who, ultimately, if indirectly, is in charge of the Justice Dept.? (Remember the three branches of gov't and all that stuff we learn in high school civics?)
Mueller ain't filing jack sh#t against Trump and if he does he'll get his old arse fired pronto, and the charges will be dismissed by the Justice Dept.
Courts can't do crap unless they've got a case; it's going to be a sad and lonely day in court when the judge shows up but neither of the parties do (Trump won't show up because why would he waste his time, and who is it who's going to show up again representing the United States??? Mueller's fired ass?
Put down the pipe, the courts can't help you out on this one.
Edit: can't believe I've been goaded into wasting my time substantiating what are very obvious points, but [url="http://https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-president-can-be-indicted--just-not-by-mueller/2017/07/27/a597b922-721d-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.a873d10efdef"]http://https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-president-can-be-indicted--just-not-by-mueller/2017/07/27/a597b922-721d-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.a873d10efdef[/url]
pretty clearly explains why Mueller can't save you here. The bottom line from the article:
Supreme Court cases going back 150 years emphasize that the president retains complete authority to control federal criminal prosecutions. Without a statutorily appointed special counsel given special tenure, Trump could fire anyone who tried to indict him.
As a detail, the author believes that if the laws were something other than what they were, a special counsel could bring charges. While that may or may not be true, it's a hypothetical: under current law, Mueller cannot bring charges against Trump (at least none that would survive more than a day before both Mueller and the charges would be dismissed).
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John M
climber
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Aug 24, 2018 - 02:33pm PT
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Maybe it’s not technically racism (claiming a race is inferior) it’s just “racially charged language“ as they say, but most people think of racism as disparaging someone in a racial way which this clearly does.
great post..
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Aug 24, 2018 - 02:39pm PT
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But, I see it as clearly racist, when a white-man posts a cartoon about a man that our society perceives as black & states "he pretends to be black" and that cartoon states that the black man, who claims to be both Christian, & an American citizen, is neither.
There was only one reference to his being black, which was treated as an asset. Faith and nationality aren't about race.
As far as racially charged situations being an issue, Obama took sides. It was usually the same side. Coincidentally, race relations deteriorated during his presidency.
Sounds like you guys are saying nothing was overtly racist about it. More along the lines of dog whistle racism, right?
----------------------------------------
For me, there are two definitions of racism:
1) Prejudice against people based on their race/skin color. This applies to institutional racism.
2) Belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
Educate me.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Aug 24, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
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Depending on what Mueller's got, Trump could be in a little trouble, that's true.
An interesting question is what if Mueller's got a good case but Congress doesn't go along with impeachment (House and or Senate, you need them both, including 2/3 in Senate to convict).
Hopefully we're not at the stage where Congress is so partisan that it would let Trump off if he's really guilty of something serious. At least here in Colorado, I've got at least some confidence in our Congresspeople-- if Trump's really guilty, I think they'd vote to get him out of there, including most of the Repubs.
But I'm feeling very confident Mueller's got nothing on Trump with the Russians, about other stuff, I can't really say.
More importantly: S&P 500 just closed at a new high!
Why everyone is trying to rock the boat is beyond me, let the good times roll I say! It's not just my 401k (and far more substantial non-retirement accounts), remember we've got super low unemployment and all sorts of other good things going on.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 24, 2018 - 03:03pm PT
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Faith and nationality aren't about race.
They are when it's implied that someone of a certain race is something they are not.
If Obama was of middle eastern descent that would be an even bigger indicator that he must be Muslim and not Christian (which he says he is and unless you have proof he's not you should STFU).
Again a white guy wouldn't have been questioned as American if his mom was American and he was born in Hawaii. You can nitpick all you want and get technical, but most people understand this.
Like when Trump said the judge of Mexican descent couldn't give him a fair shot. It's racist because he's saying that person will behave a certain way because of his race. It's BS.
If race relations got worse under Obama I would put it more at the hands of racists who were snapping that we had a black president. The right wing media (including mainstream media Fox) did everything they could to push the narrative that Obama was bad, but if you look at what he actually did and said it's not that way.
Then you have what has happened under Trump. Wholesale approval to be racist d#@&%e-bags, with Trump using "racially charged language" a lot and saying white nationalists are good people. Night and day for race relations compared to what Obama actually did.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Aug 24, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
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Am I the only one who sees a comparison?
Sarah Sanders and her father Mike Huckabee could do a TV show together, wherein they seek out gays and vilify them in public.
Stray Eye for the Queer Guy
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 24, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
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Bushman and Tom. I posted a photo previously comparing Sanders Huckabee to Uncle Fester, I thought is was funny and they looked similar just because of her expression. I didn't know she had a lazy eye. I have since deleted that photo. As I mention above I don't think it's cool to make fun of someone for something they can't change.
It's fine to call someone out for being a homophobe or a liar. Not for the way they were born.
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michaeld
climber
Beta Sprayer at your Gym
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Aug 24, 2018 - 03:32pm PT
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Can we discuss what Covfefe would taste like?
Probably very rich in toffee, some sort of nut to make it a bit savory, and probably a floral taste of some rare flower that's gold. Extremely generic, but comes in a gold packaging "MADE IN AMERICA", but grown in Colombia and processed in Chiiiiina.
The Ivanka roast would be vanilla.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Aug 24, 2018 - 05:03pm PT
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Edward T asks us to educate him about racism.
I tried politely today, several others here tried politely.
I do want to mention, it appears you think it's fine to post racist lies about Obama, since you believe we are posting lies about Trump.
Except,
What we are posting about Trump is mostly news, which is true, not left-wing lies.
Not that I expect you to believe that the main-stream media, except for Fox, mostly tells it straight. I'm sure you won't like this chart, which attempts to show the bias, or lack of bias of various news organizations. click on the photo to enlarge it to nice size.
This link takes you to the site that created it & you can also enlarge it more, to see that NBC, CBS, & ABC have little bias in their news, while Fox is not only biased, but reports inaccurately.
http://www.adfontesmedia.com/the-chart-version-3-0-what-exactly-are-we-reading/
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Aug 24, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 24, 2018 - 06:00pm PT
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*^*
YEP
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Aug 24, 2018 - 06:05pm PT
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The economy is just cranking.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Aug 24, 2018 - 06:13pm PT
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Blahblah, tell us what an appropriate S&P level would be for the Mueller investigation to continue.
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Aug 24, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
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Accurate and hilarious graph Wilbeer
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Aug 24, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
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Mono,there have been 32 guilty indicted so far by Mueller,this should be shut down.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Aug 24, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
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Let's not give Mueller any credit for indicting the Russian spies, if anything that shows he's getting a little drunk with power.
Of course Russian spies hack US government (and political party) computers when they can. That's what spies do.
Remember when the Obama administration got caught spying on phone calls from Merkel and other allies? What do you think US spies do to Russia, China, Iran, etc.? (Actually we know they did a good job hacking Iran's computers and slowing down their bomb making.) I guess Germany should have indicted a bunch of American spies if that's how the game is played.
Now to change the subject to the Obama meme: that was a little offensive IMHO. With a few exceptions, Obama served admirably as president (I mean how he conducted himself, not his policy) and as far as we know lives an exemplary personal life. We may disagree with many of his policy decisions, not like the judges he appointed, question his foreign policy, etc. But that doesn't mean it's OK to tell obvious fibs like the birther stuff. I'm not sure how much of the meme I'd call racist and how much I'd just call generally offensive for other reasons, but we can do better than that.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Aug 24, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
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Sure Fet, I’m easy, posts deleted. I see that it was a rude post and a crude observation on my part now that you mention it. I’m not going to change anyone’s mind about their politics by posting much here anyway.
But there is one thing I have a hard time understanding about Trump supporters. For the life of me I can’t understand why someone would believe that a person such as Donald Trump would give a rats ass about the everyman, let alone the poor or the disenfranchised.
Someone who has lived a lavish lifestyle ensconced in wealth from the cradle, with a history of dubious business dealings, surrounded by attorneys and embroiled in legal conflicts throughout their entire career, would not be likely to care about much besides amassing more wealth and power.
Of course there are a small percentage of truly altruistic and generous wealthy people who contribute greatly to our society and to the poor. There are many other wealthy folks who have conducted themselves with frugality and dignity as well, but I would think that these are of course the exception.
I could not count in 100 million years a Donald Trump type to be one of them...and yet the conservative movement has chosen him as their standard bearer. I don’t think I’m ever going to be able to wrap my head around it.
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