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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2006 - 10:37pm PT
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That would be the "DaFatty" code. The only problem is there are no clues to follow. Cluelessness is the main attribute of the code, an impentrable infinite loop of self-unfulfilling wishful thinking. It will never be cracked. Some say it was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls fiction cave and inadvertantly got mixed in with the ones from that non-fiction caves. Zionists and Neocons have much in common today - they look at what is without any ownership of the past; they look at what might be without any understanding of it.
Wishful thinking and fantasy have already cost us enormously, we can not afford any more of it. The only place we should have applied effort, funds, and if need be ruthless force is Israel; the United States is further at risk with each day that passes without the implementation of a settlement based on a complete withdrawl to pre-'67 borders as per UN resolution 242.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Dec 18, 2006 - 11:45am PT
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Way to boil my whole post down to Kissinger. What about the rest of the reality based community? Powell? Odham? Pick a random American.
From your editorial:
"That doesn't mean it is sensible for the Bush administration to dogmatically oppose any contact with those regimes. The administration would be foolish not to support the creation of a contact group of Iraq's neighbors and other outside parties that includes Syria and Iran. But bilateral "engagement" is hardly the most important answer to the reckless regional offensive by the Iranian-Syrian alliance."
It ackowledges that talking with Iran is a good idea and that the myth that Iraq has "taught our enemies a lesson" which conservatives have been pushing since Day 1 is merely a myth.
It concludes pushing for sanctions. It says they have stalled for 3 months but fails to say why, and the reason why is that they likely won't work and likely won't be well-enforced and likely won't target anything or real concern for Iran, especially for the elites who we are really contending with. It WILL succeed in pissing off the general populace, the majority of whom when polled think that Iran should have a closer relationship with the United States.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 18, 2006 - 12:25pm PT
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It is good that everyone is upset over events associated with the ME. It would be even better if we realized when we fill up our tank with gas we are sending one wad of money to US oil companies and another wad to the ME, to be used in ways at which we may only guess.
Each of us has in our hands the only sanction that will be effective. So. Use it.
Seems to me I hear a lot of chopping but I don't see any chips flying.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2006 - 03:11pm PT
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you are an idiot
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Dec 18, 2006 - 03:11pm PT
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Are we there yet?
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jstan
climber
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Dec 18, 2006 - 03:19pm PT
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Still no chips.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2006 - 03:28pm PT
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"I'm not suggesting that it's right, but the peoples of Europe are speaking"
so they do a study that says ther is more discrimination since 9/11 or whenever, and the lesson you take from that is the the euros are less accepting of muslims, so we ought to feel free to kill them at a whim, is that it?
and btw- your conclusion that "the peoples of europe are speaking" is akin to someone else concluding that americans support expanding the war, and backing that conclusion by quoting your posts on ST.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Dec 18, 2006 - 03:47pm PT
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The stats show more attacks on Jews in Europe by Muslims than attacks on Muslims by all others.
I anticipated this problem previously. It's going to get worse. Rapes of non-Muslim women by "middle eastern" men is becoming a problem. Non-Muslim women in some European countries at being told it would be best if they covered their hair when in areas predominantly Muslim to avoid problems etc. etc.
Oh, it's going to get worse, much worse. As Muslims push forward inch by inch trying to establish Shariah bit by bit; and as the governments compromise little by little, you're going to see the fight go to the street as resentment grows.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Dec 18, 2006 - 06:44pm PT
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Fatty that has been the problem the whole time over there and the reason that they are facing a graver domestic threat than we are. They are not assimilated nearly as well as they are here. This point has been made by myself and others on numerous other threads. What's your point?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 18, 2006 - 07:40pm PT
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You can say it as many times as you like but it isn't happening. Period. What is happening is Iran is switching from the dollar to the Euro.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 19, 2006 - 03:13pm PT
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Chips? Any one see any chips going by?
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Dec 19, 2006 - 03:58pm PT
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Cow chips.....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 19, 2006 - 04:19pm PT
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They might, but getting the ball rolling on a conversion of oil sales from dollars to the Euro might be worth it to them. The Chinese could easily do oil trading in Euros and everything else in dollars without breaking a sweat to support them...
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Dec 19, 2006 - 07:47pm PT
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TGT,
As you know, that's exactly the way I see it; and, I might add, a hilarious video.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 19, 2006 - 08:01pm PT
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Well poison squirrels, unless you have about 2-300k more troops laying around and ready to go it's all pretty pointless. An infusion of 2-30k troops is a waste beyond securing a wider perimeter around the green zone and acting as a rearguard.
It was a failure from the beginning to not put Iraqi security forces recruiting sites on the outskirts of cities and then training facilities even farther removed - possibly relocating entire families as necessary. Then once in training or trained, every Iraqi security officer or trooper should have been protected at all times or armed to the gills. Instead we've poured hundreds of millions into 'training' only to have thousands upon thousands of recruits and new police and troop volunteers massacred again and again. Clueless beyond word that only now does the administration recognize the value in each of these brave souls and the need to to adequately equip them. Unfortunately it's now far too late for such efforts; lines have been drawn and the security forces completely infiltrated. Needed to happen on day one.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2006 - 04:19am PT
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another question that is simply to valid a question for the media to actually ask out loud is this:
what happens if/when the iraqi security forces are never really able to take over? what happens if they are too loyal to their other-than-nationalist affiliations, and they never reach the point that we are able to turn the security of iraq over to them?
the truth is this- "they" are telling us that we can expect that to be what allows us to leave, but "they" have been 100% wrong about nearly everything else up to now.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 20, 2006 - 04:11pm PT
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All of this so out of character. Here we are sitting on a ledge arguing about whether this move at which we are looking could be done if the cliff were laid back another five degrees. Or if the humidity were lower. Or if just one of us knew how to climb. All things safely outside of our control. So out of character. What do we do in real life? We go up and do the bleeding move!
Each of us is entirely able to do what we can to solve this problem by the only means that will actually work. Each of us can reduce our gasoline consumption by half – easily! When money stops pouring into the ME the people there, many of them fine people I might add, good and “bad” alike will be looking for some way to buy food – in short order. I give it one month. As a bonus I am no longer sending so much money to US oil companies.
Starting from an already low consumption rate we have cut our use by 75%. I went to Facelift by bus and train. It was cheaper. And it proved to be much more fun than going by car. I have a half ton truck. I don’t take it out unless I have scheduled my jobs so I have at least a quarter ton to move. I am getting 20 gallons every other month. Errands by bicycle with a round trip of 20-25 miles during high traffic times are taking less than twice the time it would take to go by car. In ten years I project the times will be comparable. Cathy is commuting 120 miles per week. She looks forward to the bike ride. Endorphins are the best way to deal with the shite you run into on a job.
We can sit here and argue about things we can’t do anything about, or we can go over the top and have done with all this. Does it bother me that some are hanging back? Not in the least. We are doing all that we can and we feel very good about it. Frankly, I was quite surprised at how nice it is out here. You will be amazed too.
Cheers,
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Dec 20, 2006 - 04:13pm PT
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Fatty,
Right all the time?
Right-wing, but that is about all.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 20, 2006 - 04:16pm PT
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Jstan
China, India and the developing world are expanding and using more and more oil. If we were got cut back, prices for oil would lower, the developing world could afford more, and so use more.
The Middle East is destined for a limited period of vastly increased wealtt starting soon in many places, starting already in Saudi Land and others.
We might need to cut back but it won't change the war. We want to be tied to their oil money, That's why we're there. You can't do that by cutting and running (not that we shouldn't)
Peace
Karl
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