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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Nov 13, 2015 - 10:58pm PT
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Q: Why did they wait until all were killed before they moved in?
A: Multiple shooters with rifles who could lay down suppressing fire while the others were reloading. Also it was a sit-down venue. Difficult to maneuver.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Nov 13, 2015 - 10:58pm PT
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I wouldn't doubt that the security people wanted to go in but were over-ruled
by the politicos.
My point exactly. The French resistance were fundamental to repelling the Nazis. The French government folded like a cheap deck of cards.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 13, 2015 - 11:01pm PT
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Your endless need to assert your "expertise" in all things related to military and terrorism
If you spend 24 plus years building custom homes or growing grapes and then making them into fine wines or following after mice collecting their shet to analyze what they eat, or... you would be asserting your expertise in doing so, correct TE.
I just think you're jealous TE cus you obviously have ZERO expertise in anything. Yet you come on here and pound away on that keyboard desperately attempting to make some think you are in the, know by demeaning many that do.
1/10 TE.
A: Multiple shooters with rifles who could lay down suppressing fire while the others were reloading. Also it was a sit-down venue. Difficult to maneuver.
NOT if your well versed and trained in CQ Hostage take Down Tactics which I am pretty certain that the French "Anti-Terrorist" Police are well acquainted with.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Nov 13, 2015 - 11:13pm PT
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The Chief and I are in complete agreement, for once. I was talking about the civilians in the venue.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 14, 2015 - 01:44am PT
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Oh, btw, these ISIS doods have NOTHING to do with GWB or Cheney. Nothing.
Just so profoundly wrong it borders on a denial of both history and reality...
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Nov 14, 2015 - 02:05am PT
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So the French president says they will be ruthless in their response. This means giving the populace a three day vacation and adding patrols in Paris. Weak! The French government has no balls.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Nov 14, 2015 - 02:06am PT
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Joe, I'm in Paris at the moment...
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Nov 14, 2015 - 02:35am PT
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While I am saddened that some posting here have quickly degenerated into heaping criticism onto one another in the most self-righteous of tones, I am actually impressed with the varied viewpoints being shared and debated here. Some commentaries are unexpected and deep, others straightforward and passionate, and some of you are quite witty and funny with your sarcasm and facetious counterpoints. While this thread is about a horrific tragedy, your battling viewpoints have at times brought laughter while reading it.
It inspires me that despite the argumentative tone, there is underlying subtext of compassion and caring here, both for the victims, for justice, and how to prevent these types of crazy, senseless acts in the future.
I like Supertopo commentary very much for important news events such as this, as you all come from different backgrounds with different experience and political viewpoints; that diversity and debate is, despite the rancor, a reflection of your vibrant humanity. Carry on and thank you for sharing your viewpoints.
PS: Chief, you are getting trolled massively and people are yanking your chain here just to get you riled up. Take a break and step back, you don't have to offer a rebuttal to every moronic insult lobbed your way. People respect you here...your patriotism is admirable and your call to action is a sign of your passion and caring.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 14, 2015 - 02:43am PT
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Stephane, glad you are safe and all our sympathies at this time.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Nov 14, 2015 - 04:23am PT
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when we collectively react rather than respond, we become the bitches of al qaeda, of isis, of insert the next inevitably more horrific iteration, assuming we continue the reactive cycle, here
as the "joke" goes, a lot of muslims, upon hearing of one of these events, thinks: "please, don't let it be a muslim, please don't let it be a muslim, please don't let it be a muslim... ahhh... fucK, not again"
similarly, there are a lot of people, who after hearing about one of these [however horrific] events, thinks: "please don't just blindly lash out, please don't use this event to push draconian legislation of control that was written months and years ago, please don't use this event to push an us vs them narrative that furthers your draconian political agenda... ahhh.. fucK, not again"
just as i suspect that the number of muslims who yell out "allahu akbar" after these attacks is in a tiny minority, i suspect that it is a vocal minority of those on the "other side" whose first response is "let's nuke the motherfucKers" [before we know who the "motherfucKers" are, how the "motherfucKers" came to be, why the "motherfucKers" say they are doing this, or even what the fucKing body count is...]
but just as with the propaganda of the radical muslims: guess who gets the press?
you guessed it: the loudmouths, the know-it-alls and the tools of the state...
and if you want to see all three of those in action: just reread and consider many of the voices active in this thread.
life sucks a lot of the time.
life is brutal a lot of the time.
people suck real fucKing hard some of the time.
people are unbelievably brutal some of the time.
does that mean we have to automatically and reactively choose that path as well?
i hope someday we learn to respond rather than just react...
until then here we will remain:
as the brides of al qaeda, of isis, and of insert the next inevitably more horrific iteration, assuming we continue the reactive cycle, here
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chacha
Mountain climber
Fontainebleau, FRANCE
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Nov 14, 2015 - 04:28am PT
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Did ISIS know that yesterday was the World Kindness Day ??
Irony...
:-(
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Nov 14, 2015 - 05:24am PT
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So article 5 of the NATO charter invokes the collective defense initiative among the 28 member countries.
ISIS now has these 28 countries, considered the world's most important military alliance, unified in collective defense against it.
Additionally, Russia has declared war against ISIS, thus NATO also has Russia on it's side in this sense (which is ironic as NATO's article 5 was originally drafted primarily to counter Soviet aggression).
In addition, there are several Middle Eastern countries which have joined in the fight against ISIS.
So, with all of this military might, would it not be fairly easily to apply continuous pressure and completely decimate ISIS?
I get that ISIS fights asymmetrically and uses guerilla warfare and terrorism thus it can be a nebulous enemy to pin to the wall, but with persistent military action both covert and overt, shouldn't ISIS soon crumble?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 14, 2015 - 05:26am PT
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The Chief, whereabouts did you live in Neuilly-sur-Seine? I used to hang out near there, actually in the 16th arrondissement, went to see Paris St Germaine several times at the Parc des Princes, but never lived in Neuilly-sur-Seine or the 16th arrondissement, too bloody expensive.
I used to work in Pierrefeu-du-Var (Provençe) and Riquewihr, Alsace. Whenever I went to Paris I tended to stay in the Latin Quarter (still expensive though).
Got to Fontainbleau to boulder a couple of times. Have you been there?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Nov 14, 2015 - 06:28am PT
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Fact: The World is still a very dangerous place, increasingly so since the latest rebirth of Radical Islam.
Fact: This sort of terrorism is COMING YOUR WAY SOON! Thanks to the combination of illegal immigration and Guest Refugees (?!). Due to this enormous threat to the unsuspecting populations of the Western democracies, we all need to close our borders to unwanted immigrants. Period! The Radical Muslims of ISIS, or ISIL. are responsible for this, not any politico from France, Germany, Canada, or the U.S.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 14, 2015 - 06:56am PT
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Well Brokedown, I beg to differ. If the politicos are inviting in large numbers of immigrants that include unknown numbers of Islamic jihadists, the responsibility of these attacks rest squarely on their shoulders. Start by firing the wishy washy progressives.
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
the pitch above you
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Nov 14, 2015 - 07:09am PT
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So, with all of this military might, would it not be fairly easily to apply continuous pressure and completely decimate ISIS?
Yeah, using the historical definition of "decimate" I think you are right. We can certainly take out 1 in 10, and probably do it pretty quickly and cleanly. I think the collateral damage to achieve the expanded definition of "decimate" will be pretty ugly and take a very long time.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Nov 14, 2015 - 07:41am PT
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Rick-
I'm not excusing the present political non-leadership for the creation of ISIS,ISIL, or whatever the politurdcians want to call them; I am saying that they were NOT brought into being by actions of politicians--past or present--but by their OWN flaming fanatic a$$hole Mullahs. As a veteran of the U.S. Army, I have an awful feeling that we're about to be "visited" by some of these bastards that B.O. has "invited" in as "refugees!"
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 14, 2015 - 07:43am PT
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They also no doubt already digging tunnels under the Canadian border.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 14, 2015 - 07:45am PT
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"...you guessed it: the loudmouths, the know-it-alls and the tools of the state...and if you want to see all three of those in action: just reread and consider many of the voices active in this thread."
" I have an awful feeling that we're about to be "visited" by some of these bastards that B.O. has "invited" in as "refugees!"
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