Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
When you are paying one in five of your citizens to not work,
disaster lurks!
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
That "old Star Trek saying," is simply a paraphrase right out of the Communist Manifesto. That really didn't turn out well for the rulers of the Soviet Union after only 70 years.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
That old Star Trek saying is simply a paraphrase right out of the Communist Manifesto.
Your points are well taken. Actually, it's even worse than you say (if that could be possible). The line is the core principle of the failed ethical theory of utilitarianism.
So, let's see....
Communism -- failed
Utilitarianism -- failed
Yup, this is a core principle worth killing a country for. Fight on, Greeks. Fight on. Stand firm for principle!
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
|
|
Here's another interpretation I haven't seen before.
By Ana Swanson
July 1
Once the Greeks joined the euro in 2002, they could borrow at very cheap rates given they were now borrowing under the continent's implicit guarantee, and they dramatically over-borrowed.
"But given that there was high growth, no one was really worried about it,” says Matthias Matthijs, a professor at Johns Hopkins University SAIS and co-editor of the new book, “The Future of the Euro,"
Between 1998 and 2007, Greece's annual economic growth per person was 3.8 percent -- the second fastest rate in Europe.
In the mid-1990s, even before it came into existence, markets made a huge bet that the euro would be a reality. Specifically, investors, many in northern Europe, bet that interest rates in northern and southern Europe would converge. At the time, interest rates in southern Europe were much higher than in northern Europe, simply because people thought investing in countries like Greece was much riskier than investing in countries like Germany.
In anticipation of the euro zone, investors put lots of money in the cheap, high-yielding bonds of southern Europe. That helped to drive down yields and fueled borrowing and an economic boom in southern countries.
Ultimately, investors were right – Greek interest rates on 10-year bonds fell from around 20 percent in the early 1990s to only 3 percent in 2002. “They made a lot of money in the north betting against higher interest rates there. That fueled the boom, before the euro came, that overheated these economies."
Then the financial crisis hit. As economic growth slowed, competitive weaknesses and unsustainable debt loads suddenly became glaringly obvious.
In short, many in the north pushed for a financial regime that didn't fit the Greek economy, because they personally stood to benefit. Many rightly blame the Greeks for its current crisis, but some of the blame belongs farther north as well, he argues.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/01/the-forgotten-origins-of-greeces-terrible-crisis-will-make-you-think-twice-about-whos-to-blame/
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2015 - 09:40pm PT
|
Stalin had to have known when we would have an operational nuclear weapon. WWII was a study in the sacrifice of Russian lives. The war on Germany's eastern front was a cauldron leaving absolutely no one untouched. Berlin had to fall to Russian troops and 400,000 casualties was an acceptable price. We need to learn from this how careful our choices must be, in future, when we decide to piss people off, That's lesson one. If confirmation were needed we might remember Eisenhower's allowing our CIA to destabilize a democratically elected government in Iran.
Rights are never remembered. (Marshall plan not excepted.)
Wrongs are never forgotten.
Gold bugs are making the argument here that the US's fiat currency may soon collapse. They don't say when. When will the dollar cease to be the world's reserve currency? If the US still enjoyed the approbation gained us by the Marshall Plan maybe not soon. But I ask you. Who could have confidence in a nation willing to put Sarah Palin one heart beat away from the briefcase with the red button? This is a huge question. Immense. One obvious result? The reserve currency will go through a period where it is somehow shared. When one of the owners acts flakey, corrective action may be applied. When correction is applied we can expect to see things for which we are not prepared.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
This is a huge question.
Only if you subscribe to the belief that the president drives the economy. Yes, he or she has
some effect but the Fed chairperson arguably has more effect. Now if the President did
something meaningful, like cut the Pentagon budget by 50%, then he would have a real
impact and legacy.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2015 - 10:39pm PT
|
No I subscribe to the idea that a president can cause us to invade other countries or to start wars.
For which there is no logical justification.
|
|
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
For which there is no logical justification.
i thought you were a evolutionist? shouldn't you have an understanding of, eat or be eaten, and the strongest will survive, and all that? We are just animals after all?
Doesn't a proud of lion's go after an ante of antelope?
there's no logical justification in the economy either. i guess that's why you scientist don't understand economic's?
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
Jstan-
Stalin had several "moles" deep within the Manhattan Project, and was fully aware of the development of the A-Bomb. When he was informed by Truman of the fact at Potsdam, he was not at all surprised. As a result, all aid to the Soviet Union was terminated--that same afternoon. Harry Truman was no dunce, and unlike grievously ill Roosevelt, viewed Stalin as a real threat to the West; as did both General George Patton and General I.D. White, who against Eisenhower's orders--occupied the American Sector of Berlin.
Presidents DO make Foreign Policy decisions, and thereby get us into wars. As a corollary to the previous statement, making wrong Foreign Policy decisions can make the subsequent wars even bloodier than they would have been had the initial decision been the correct one.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Reilly...If we cut the pentagon budget by 50% who will protect America's corporate interests abroad..? Sorry for the sarcasm...
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
rj-
Simply eliminating the F35 program alone, would save hundreds of billion dollars a year. Does the phrase "boondoggle" ring a bell in this regard for the F35? There was little wrong with the basic airframe design--just the additional weight and complexity of the VTOL capability added to expense and degraded combat performance. My recollection is that the cost of the F35 program was something around $735 Billion?
The Generals and Admirals simply LOVE fancy new toys to "Command." The more expensive they are, the higher the prestige!
|
|
John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
|
|
I was shocked to see, they've wasted so much on obscene pensions for Generals and Admirals, plus the F35, they need to offload 40,000 soldiers. No wonder we're consuming Sec Dods so fast.
|
|
John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
|
|
Meanwhile, the UK shows the way.
A recent election, was a Conservative blowout. During the election, the Left made a big issue of minumum wage. In fact, the Conservatives increased it by more than the Left wanted. A bigger tax base fits well with their economic moves.
Additionally, they've cut off child support beyond the 3rd child. No more will it be a Jihadist breeding ground.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Brokedown.....Your preaching to the choir here on boondogglism...I have a friend that was hired to clean house at NASA back in the mid 80's...He's got some entertaining stories on government waste and employees camped out at the expresso machine... Seems that 735 billion could go to better use , like education..?
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
|
|
Having worked around the military for 35 years overseas, I can certainly agree with brokedown about generals and their toys. During the Reagan years they had so much money they didn't know what to do with, they spent part of it gilding all the chandeliers with 18 carat gold in the officer's club in Mildenhall, England. Of course they wrote it off to the Soviet threat. Eventually because it was so excessive, people did get court martialed for it after it was reported in the European Stars and Stripes but the symbolism remains.
In Okinawa I saw waste almost as ridiculous during those years and at the end of the fiscal year, they would put out the word that they had too many florescent lights, wrenches or whatever, and couldn't ask for a bigger budget the next year with a surplus so everyone go down to a certain hangar and pick free supplies.
I saw pilots burn up brand new motel furniture from several BOQ rooms one night in an outdoor barbeque pit when they were drunk and nothing was done "because they're pilots you know, they have to let off steam". And the amount of extra fire extinguishers that had to be bought as drunk pilots love to spray each other with fire extinguishers when they get drunk, was astronomical. And this is all the small stuff. Imagine what they can boondoggle on their expensive toys in addition to the $200 coffee pots and their $600 toilet seats.
Edit: In contrast to the Air Force which is the most wasteful, the Marine Corps prides itself on returning part of its budget to Congress every year.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
|
|
Additionally, they've cut off child support beyond the 3rd child.
now that I LIKE !
government should not have a responsibility for irresponsibility
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
rj-
I suspect the boondoggle-ism also extends into the "Education Industry," as well. The "savings" from cutting the excesses of the Military-Industrial Complex should be used to help rebuild our more basic industries and putting men and women back to work in other than service industries. This could be done through better tax credits for onshore capital investments and in rebuilding our infrastructure of bridges, roads, and highways, for example. Our highways are vastly inferior to those in Germany and to some extent, Italy. The Interstate system was built in he 1960s--on the cheap--and the system is slowly crumbling nationwide. This would create more construction and blue collar jobs, in addition to "giving something back" to the taxpayers.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
|
|
This talk about Germany should "forgive" Greece's debt because Greece forgave Germany's debt after the war bothers me, not that anyone gives a damn what bothers me.
Germany has already lent Greece billions, which perhaps will never be paid back.
That alone ought to even the lending score.
The Greek people are in for a lot more "austerity" pain irregardless of what happens next.
Yes their own government made bad decisions both in paying retirement pensions at a
pretty young age of 61, but also in having very weak tax code including poor tax enforcement.
Those past poor government decisions are now very unfortunately being paid for by the
misery of high unemployment and financial insecurity for the citizens, not their "fault"
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
^^^^^
That sounds like a lot of dissimulation (i.e.: Bullschitt) to me. The price differential between an F16 or F22 means that the loss of a single F35 would be catastrophic, under a prolonged war scenario. Stealth today doesn't necessarily mean stealth tomorrow, as countermeasures are always improving as well as the stealth technology.
You can always tell the age of the boys (Admirals and Generals) by the price of their toys...
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
If you want to really understand Pentagon depravity you should read __Boyd -The Fighter
Pilot Who Changed The Art Of War.__. He has a lasting legacy in many things but his battles
with Air Force generals over aircraft development are legendary. The book exhaustively
details the insanity of the Air Force weapons development which ultimately boils down to a
system that solely exists to provide very cushy positions in the so-called defense industry for
colonels and generals after they retire. To say the whole thing is treasonous is an understate-
ment. One tidbit: the Air Force fought tooth and nail against the F-16 that Boyd almost single-
handedly drove the design for. The generals hated it because it wasn't designed to deliver
nuclear bombs and it was too cheap. They said it was a "short-legged little f*#k" without a
mission. It turns out it had better legs than the F-15 and could defeat that plane in any
situation.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!