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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Any mere athlete can do a sport climb, but it takes craft and cunning to do a 5.6 with proper protection . . How often do you actually fall on and test those placements you deem so masterfully placed? That's right - never. You'd soon wind up in the hospital falling on most < 11 routes anyway. You're basically just masturbating.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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jacking off while climbing..
..whitepoint?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Specifically, as a shorter-than-5.9 climber, I find that the hardest and scariest part of sport climbing is often hanging a draw. This is frustrating because it's not an innate feature of the rock, but an accident of the height of the first ascencionist relative to me. Pre-hanging draws often allows me to climb the ROCK in a more authentic way, clipping from the restful stances that the FA used to hang the draws, but from which I can't reach the bolt. Perhaps this comnpromises the authenticity of my climbing the artificial bolt line. I'm OK with that.
What you need to do is hang a sling of a desired length off the hangers you have a hard time clipping (could be any or all of them), and then on your redpoint attempt, clip your quickdraw into the slings instead of the hangers. Then you can have a real redpoint (but make damn sure you unlcip the quickdraws from the slings between attempts).
If you refuse to do this, don't this the wrong way, but I have some concern that you may be a "pinkpointer" at heart and using your shortness as rationalization to avoid manning up and going for a real redpoint.
Edit:
How often do you actually fall on and test those placements you deem so masterfully placed? That's right - never. You'd soon wind up in the hospital falling on most < 11 routes anyway. I can state from first-hand experience that JLP is right about that (I suppose we could quibble about if it's really most < 11 routes, but I take his point as being that falling on non-steep, ledgy routes is a good way to serious injury).
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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On the other hand, I hung all the draws on stolen chimney today. And pulled on several of them. And it wasn't a pink point. And it was a gas! And definitely climbing.
But I'll be sure to feel bad anyway, if that's what it takes to "go somewhere" in this "sport" Because that's what is important......
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SweetWilliam
Boulder climber
TheSand,Man
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I went to frustration creek and sent a route it had chain draws on some of the clips and I skipped a few clips on the send so made it easier. I didn't uncrew and remove the chains draws cause its stupid and who carries a wrench leading and skippin that last clip was prolly the only reason I didn't falloff. I did hang three draws on the lead though.
is that a redpoint pinkpoint or stopwiningandgoclimbingpoint
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philo
Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
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If you hang the draws who cares it's a sport climb.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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If you hang the draws and no one hears you, is it still a sport climb?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
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Only till the tree falls.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
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Sport MUST follow the rules and vocabulary of Trad.
Patrick. Thank you for confirming that you were in fact engaging in the lost art of sarcasm.
The dialog continues its entertainment.
Agreed!
Relics [i.e. those less than 40 years younger than me, but who care about color-pointing other than yellow pointing] "Pinkpoint does not equal redpoint, so quit calling your wussified ascents redpointing."
Modern climbers: "We don't care, and you're a jackwagon [or words to that effect] by putting down our accomplishments that you couldn't dream about doing."
Me [troglodyte]: "You young'ns spend an awful lot of words and insults on a topic about which you purport not to care! And what's all this fuss about whether it's redpoint or pinkpoint anyway? The adventurous state is on the wane. Any mere athlete can do a sport climb, but it takes craft and cunning to do a 5.6 with proper protection . . ."
Re-posted purely for entertainment purposes.
I'm just pissed off that neither the 1990s or 80s are calling me. Anyone else not getting phone calls from these years?
Dude! I'm going to be laughing about this one all day! LOL
How often do you actually fall on and test those placements you deem so masterfully placed? That's right - never. You'd soon wind up in the hospital falling on most < 11 routes anyway. You're basically just masturbating.
JLP proves he is incapable of responding without insult.
jacking off while climbing..
..whitepoint?
FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY.
If you refuse to do this, don't this the wrong way, but I have some concern that you may be a "pinkpointer" at heart and using your shortness as rationalization to avoid manning up and going for a real redpoint.
Maybe he just doesn't care either way??
But I'll be sure to feel bad anyway, if that's what it takes to "go somewhere" in this "sport" Because that's what is important......
LOL Call it what you want bro! Fun is truly what it's all about, and discussing it has been extremely entertaining.
No one is calling you, Justin.
Just cause you said that , i'm gonna call him later...
Climbing is always fun bro!
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sDawg
climber
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Can we make up meanings for other colors? There's plenty of discussion to spread around. I'll start.
A greenpoint is if you pay a guide to help you, or use specialty equipment outside the financial reach of most climbers.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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so the first time Pei tried it, was with the draws in thanks to them. In fact you can thank them for this thread.
If she sent it her first try (with the draws in place) I believe the correct terminology is "flashed", or even "onsighted", if she didn't get any beta from the other climbers.
My last post was a bit tongue in cheek, so here's what I really have to say about the modern use of the term "redpoint". It's my understanding that the term "redpoint" mostly comes into play when you try a route that is way out of your comfort zone. A route that you have to work and fight to learn and then make (possibly several ... or even more) attempts (possibly over several days or longer) to climb successfully. In some areas maybe the draws are in place on hard routes, but here they are not. So on your first go, you (or someone you're with) will have to place the draws. If the route is hard enough for "redpointing" to come into play, you won't have a chance on your first try. The route should be so hard that just clipping the draws and finishing the route without falling after many tries, is a dubious proposition. Even with a judicious use of time, and fighting as hard as you can, maybe you won't get the send. For the most part, if you're worried about whether or not you should be placing the draws, then I imagine you're too far into the comfort zone to really be using the modern day concept of "redpointing". A good example might be some of Sharma's sends where, even after weeks (months?) of work, he still actually had to skip clips (with draws in place) in order to be able to "redpoint".
Personally, I think not giving any weight to the importance of whether or not the draws are in place in sport climbing has made the "redpointing" game all that more intense and interesting. It allows the climber to focus more on the climbing aspect (instead of wasting time and energy fudging around reaching for draws on the harness). This seems to be pretty much the consensus, too, as far as I can tell. For the most part, almost nobody really cares if the draws are in place or not. So relax and enjoy modern day terminology. Forget your old school Catholic past and get with the groove. Then if you really want to know what it's all about, pick a route that is so far out of your comfort zone, that you don't even know if you'll ever do it, even with draws hung in place. Put your ego on the line and fight and return and try again and train for it and come back and if you ever manage the send, you'll have a glimpse of the modern meaning of "redpoint". (Who knows, maybe you've already done this, but if you had, it's hard to believe you would have started this thread).
Of course, there I times when I've been thwarted on my first go, placing the draws, on an easier route (maybe it was tricky, or maybe I was climbing poorly) and I go back and send on the second go, clipping the draws. I could care less what this gets called, but personally, I see no reason to take out the draws and replace them if I have to make a second go. That's just me. Sure, maybe the route would be a little harder if I took out and replaced the draws (or maybe it wouldn't) but it would also be harder if I hung a 10 pound weight from my scrotum and I'm not going to do that either.
Cheers Big Mike
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Is there such thing as a salmon-point?
Ho man had to edit myself. Sometimes, it's best to leave things to the imagination.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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It allows the climber to focus more on the climbing aspect (instead of wasting time and energy fudging around reaching for draws on the harness).
Guess that's the point of view from Argentina and how it is done there?
My understanding of the origins of "sport climbing" was that it was so one could start practicing to lead routes via traditional trad. Going through the trouble of being above the anchor, "fudging around reaching for draws."
Sure things change and evolve, but this is the first I heard that the original definition of redpointing had changed....and that BigMike was a Catholic. - thought he prayed to JAH.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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It's fun and games until a hold gets manufactured and then someone should get their eye poked out.
Rap down a wall in the wilderness chipping most of the holds. Climb up those holds on toprope and claim the FA and name it. A few days later, rap back down hammer drilling bolts every 5 ft from which you hang draws. Then do the second ascent, claiming it is a redpoint. Wake up from a coma months later caused by blunt force trauma(most likely a #10 or #11 slung hexentric.)
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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So roots, what's it been, about 20 years since you've paid any attention to what's going on in the climbing world? Or did you think Sharma really put the draws in when he redpointed Just Do It 20 years ago?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2015 - 02:35pm PT
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If she sent it her first try (with the draws in place) I believe the correct terminology is "flashed", or even "onsighted", if she didn't get any beta from the other climbers.
No, she took with the draws in and then sent while clipping them, and had previously taken the whip. She had a history, which indeed makes it a redpoint. She figured out the sequence on her first try then sent it on her second.
My last post was a bit toungue and cheek, so here's what I really have to say about the modern use of the term "redpoint". It's my understanding that the term "redpoint" mostly comes into play when you try a route that is way out of your comfort zone. A route that you have to work and fight to learn and then make (possibly several ... or even more) attempts (possibly over several days or longer) to climb successfully.
Indeed, as my personal You Snooze story related.
The route should be so hard that just clipping the draws and finishing the route without falling after many tries, should be a dubious proposition.
This is where we disagree, since i was fighting for a route that was right at my lead limit, and it simply required me to be able to hang on a little longer so i could place and clip the draws.
A good example might be some of Sharma's sends where, even after weeks (months?) of work, he still actually had to skip clips (with draws in place) in order to be able to "redpoint".
Skipping clips is all good in my book. Less energy expended the better. You don't need that clip? Run it out. This was one of my strategies on snooze too, but it never paid any dividends other than a bigger whip.
Personally, I think not giving any weight to the importance of whether or not the draws are in place in sport climbing has made the "redpointing" game all that more intense and interesting.
I believe it has simply watered down the language we use and has had absolutely no effect on the climbing.
Not sticking to placing the draws has obviously made things easier and has allowed many people to advance their grade, but what you call it really makes no difference other than allowing someone to be a little more specific about how they actually did send.
Put your ego on the line and fight and return and try again and train for it and come back and if you ever manage the send, you'll have a glimpse of the modern meaning of "redpoint". (Who knows, maybe you've already done this, but if you had, it's hard to believe you would have started this thread) .
Of course i have done this but it doesn't mean I can't use the proper terminology to describe what is is that I am doing.
You Snooze was way above my head, and i was a noob at the time. I have done it other routes also.
I could care less what this gets called, but personally, I see no reason to take out the draws and replace them if I have to make a second go.
Don't care then. If it was me i'd call it a pinkpoint.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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So roots, what's it been, about 20 years since you've paid any attention to what's going on in the climbing world? Or did you think Sharma really put the draws in when he redpointed Just Do It 20 years ago?
No, I learned how to climb last month, just finished reading Freedom of the Hills, so now preaching on the internet.
How about you?
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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^ Cosmic!!
Hey Mike - good discussion. Hope it makes the Chris Mac monthly email blast. It's a good topic and you've done a great job of dealing with all the flak.
Honestly, I just want to white point something this weekend!!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Never mind twenty years ago !
Roots did you follow the Woodson thread ?
Is it the right of today's new crushers to pull the flexing flakes off of long standing "scary lines"?
Do they define the game? or does the rock define the game?
I think that in today's world we hear about some things . As always there are great climbs being climbed in great style by excellent climbers that no one will ever hear about.
What you spray about to compare to the hoard or another climber is not important unless you use it to look back and grow from the experiences.
What color ? Where did the color system go when it crossed the oceans, became ephemeral rather than an actual painted circle below a open project, in a place where bolts went in by some hard to believe means.
I think that the use of strange lingo has only complicated a simple verb ; Climb.
While Harding is to be lionized for his grit and determination, the essence of what I have seen in the growth of climbing is more a product driven search for the purity that Royal Robbins sought .
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2015 - 03:09pm PT
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Sure things change and evolve, but this is the first I heard that the original definition of redpointing had changed....and that BigMike was a Catholic. - thought he prayed to JAH.
Honestly, I just want to white point something this weekend!!
Something like that Art. Who would want to practice clipping however? What an asinine statement. ;)
LOL!!!!!!!
Especially when i see my friends clip draws the wrong way for the direction they are heading. Practice makes perfect.
Or did you think Sharma really put the draws in when he redpointed Just Do It 20 years ago?
Did he hang them? Or are they permadraws? Because if he hung em' in my eyes. It's a pinkpoint.
A pinkpoint i would love to have under my belt.
A badass pinkpoint i will never do. But pink none the less. In my eyes.
Hey Mike - good discussion. Hope it makes the Chris Mac monthly email blast. It's a good topic and you've done a great job of dealing with all the flak.
Thanks Art!
I don't take no flak. I laugh robustly at those who get so agitated.. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
While Harding is to be lionized for his grit and determination, the essence of what I have seen in the growth of climbing is more a product driven search for the purity that Royal Robbins sought .
I'm not trying to tell anyone how to climb. I'm only expressing my opinion of what a word means, by sticking to it's original definition. People want to change that definition? Fine. I don't have to buy in.
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