Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
|
|
|
May 26, 2015 - 09:36pm PT
|
What is Wealth? What is Poverty?
It is exactly
where you find
your wealth.
|
|
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
|
May 26, 2015 - 10:19pm PT
|
#QuackQuack
|
|
Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 07:33am PT
|
This is on topic if you, like I, think that a Survival of the fittest principle applied to markets can often result in better results that any alternative that's been tried on a grand scale.
How did market forces work when it came to curbing air and water pollution? Did market forces result in the best computer operating system possible, or did it result in Microsoft Windows? Do market forces produce the best healthcare system?
The market is not the cure for everything.
BTW, Kris, I was researching the Gorge of Despair and read the FA you and Chelsea along with Guy did of Despairadoes on the Silver Turret. That's something wonderful there.
Me, I'm planning on the 3rd class route on Harrington. :-/
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 07:40am PT
|
Who's to say that the market isn't the best purveyor of health care? It damn well could be if
legislators grew some cojones (and some brains) and wrote some meaningful laws to govern
the marketplace so that the scumbag insurers had to play nicely. Having just been in Canada
with the rels I sure heard some less than glowing accounts of their system, as in really bad.
|
|
EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 07:48am PT
|
The market is not the cure for everything.
No one made that claim.
All too often, anti-capitalism folks use an unrealistic definition of Capitalism to attack.
Capitalism works in the long run, when reasonably regulated. IMO the biggest problem with regulation is combating those who fix the game.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 08:38am PT
|
Hey, Gary, I just talked to Nikita Maduro. He says to come on down, the weather's fine
and he has the economy purring along! (FYI-don't go out after dark)
|
|
Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 08:41am PT
|
The Capitalist system works great for China, they have heavy Gov. regulations and Gov. controlled businesses (Fascism), socialized public services and they are eating our lunch.
And America subsidizes their rise in power with our stupid trade policies!
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 09:11am PT
|
Ksolem: . . . a Survival of the fittest principle applied to markets can often result in better results that any alternative that's been tried on a grand scale.
This needs to be amended by more current theories and evidence supporting them. Look up “path dependency,” or read this old NYT’s article on why the best doesn’t always win.
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/05/magazine/why-the-best-doesn-t-always-win.html
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 09:26am PT
|
The Capitalist system works great for China
Did you type that with a straight face? BwaHaHaHaHa! Yeah, it works great there,
especially if you're a big fan of rampant corruption. Do you read anything other than
The Daily Worker? Sorry, that was a low blow because The Daily Worker would be
banned in China.
ps. Pick up a copy of last month's Foreign Affairs. The whole issue was on China.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 10:51am PT
|
There's a guy in China named Hailun Chen who's making a good go of capitalism making pianos there. He bought out the government interest in his plant and now runs it privately. They are very good instruments, he also contracts out to some of the fancy-shmancy Euro makers.
On the other hand, Dongbei was a government owned facility that made the best pianos coming out of China for a while, then that factory was bought out by Baldwin and those pianos are OK.
Baldwin shut down their Arkansas factory and sent those jobs to the ChiComms.
|
|
Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 11:52am PT
|
Poverty is not having a warm, dry, safe place to go and leech off someone.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 12:04pm PT
|
Poverty is not having every imaginable positive "right" supplied for you:
Food
Housing
Medical care
Kids (and more of 'em)
Car(s)
Cell phone(s)
Flat-screen TV(s)
Cable or Sat channels
Recreational weed (in a few states)
Any other comforts and niceties you might happen to desire
*
Of course, libs will say, "Well, food and medical are genuine needs, but pot? That just shows how whacked out the 'conservative' arguments are!"
But wait.
That vast majority of people throughout history have never "needed" medical care in anything like the sense we "enjoy" it now. And the average lifespan BITD was just below what ours is today, IF you made it past the first five years of your life. The fact that modern medical care is available does not make it a need (and most certainly not a positive right).
No, what we have today is the GOVERNMENT telling US what our "needs" are and then "leveling the playing field" (to the lowest common denominator) regarding those "needs". But that just is the government taking control of our VALUES and priorities, TELLING us what we shall value and prioritize in the minutest details of our lives.
The federal government was supposed to be value-agnostic.
Return to a value-agnostic federal government that simply does its actual job regarding such things as anti-trust, anti-corruption regulation (and actual enforcement), and freedom will return to this land.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 02:34pm PT
|
MikeL-Interesting article, but from 1996. Opens with the observation that Apple is on the verge of bankruptcy. Apparently they did some things right since then. The point being that applying an evolutionary point of view to markets does not, anymore than in life, mean that there is only one winner in a specific market (environment.)
He makes an example of Beta vs VHS. Many geeks viewed Beta as superior, but the public - choosing between two machines which were virtually identical in purpose - chose the one which better served their needs when they made their choice. Matsushita better understood their wants. VHS won in open competition in the market.
QWERTY lives on because changing it, at this point, is not practical. What does change, and where for the most part the better solutions prevail, are the platforms on which this keyboard layout is used. The laptop I'm using is a far cry from he mechanical typewriter. I wonder what this device would be like if Govt. direction had replaced a competitive market.
As for how to uplift, or provide more opportunity for the poorest of the world, I am stumped. If you were to take all of the wealth of the richest Americans and throw it at the problem it wouldn't make a dent. So there is no overnight solution. In the cases of Africa, central and south America I'd say start by getting the Catholic church the hell out of there and stop giving money to corrupt governments, it does nothing for the people but entrenches their oppressors.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 02:50pm PT
|
stop giving money to corrupt governments, it does nothing for the people but entrenches their oppressors.
Amen, and stop corporate welfare here. "Too big to fail" is insane public policy. Many of these mega-corp leaders should be in prison or in front of a firing squad.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 03:00pm PT
|
In the cases of Africa, central and south America I'd say start by getting the Catholic church the hell out of there and stop giving money to corrupt governments, it does nothing for the people but entrenches their oppressors.
Kris, you may be a bit harsh on the Catholic church [Disclaimer, I am an Armenian Evangelical, not a Catholic]. I do wonder, however, when the commandment not to covet became a mere suggestion that could be ignored. To the extent the left's fascination with equality amounts to a philosphy based on covetousness and greed, I find it inimical to orthodox (and Orthodox) Christian doctrine. Sad to say, there is a significant bloc of Catholic clergy that I could lump into that group. I don't think, however, that Catholic theology generally agrees with, say Liberation Theology.
The latter has led to more misery, since the regimes it helps bring about tend to be corrupt, greedy, all-powerful, and provide the people with little but grief and scapegoats.
John
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 03:44pm PT
|
...or in front of a firing squad.
I think (hope) that's hyperbole.
JE - I know there are many Catholics who risk it all to try to help people in the most impoverished places on earth. Great works are done by missionaries from all walks, out of compassion and in the name of God. But I doubt that most first world Catholics realize the huge damage which anti birth control and anti abortion teachings do in the third world. Teaching that using condoms in places wracked by aids and overpopulation is a sin against God is bizarre.
My complaint is against the secretive, sequestered leaders of this institution in Rome, not against the faithful.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 03:45pm PT
|
Execute CEOs?
Absolutely. Some of them that orchestrated our latest "recession" could indeed be found guilty of treason.
Too many mega-corps consider themselves entirely beyond any particular nation's laws. Multi-national banks in particular are the "hidden hands" that control the strings.
Do you think that the "federal reserve" is either federal or a reserve? Do you think it is accountable to we the people? Do you think it has a single shred of our best interest at heart? Do you think that the people running it consider themselves accountable to the constitution? Do you think that there are means by which they can be held accountable (or even required to be audited)?
|
|
EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
|
May 27, 2015 - 04:13pm PT
|
Teaching that using condoms in places wracked by aids and overpopulation is a sin against God is bizarre.
Is that what's going on in Sub-Sahara Africa?
It's annoying that this relatively minor issue gets so much attention.
Read up on what's being provided in the region. The "no condom" policy is minuscule compared to all the good being done.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!