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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
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Seems like Coz, Kurt, Kenny, and Dave were carrying the torch on the new hard free climbs, too during that era.
Rather than put in the hard work on free FA's, I personally enjoyed for the most part doing some of the classic and not-so-classic long hard free routes multiple times with various partners and visitors, refining time and crusiness each time, routes like Freestone, Greasy but Groovy (and Shakey Flakes), the many full length R-rated 5.11 routes on higher, middle and lower Cathedral, fast records on routes like Half Dome and Sentinel (west face and C-H), Astroman about a dozen times. There was plenty to do! I'd say we were doing pretty well until Croft showed up and notched it up a bit!
But i was mostly focused on hard nailups, trying to get in a few of the big wall testpieces each season. The mainstream, including the Smoot crowd i suppose, didn't really consider big walling a serious pursuit, i guess.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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It appears that a sense of insecurity regarding raw technical difficulty had worked it's way into the local mindset of the 1980s. Yea, the boys were doing truely world-class stuff, but it was neither Alpine in nature, nor pure difficult rock climbing. It was big, long, hard free climbing that had lost its traction in the larger climbing media, and the boys couldn't quietly understand their accomplishments without media recognition.
Years later the efforts of this era are clearly recognized as world-class!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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One wonders how a climbing historian, say in 50 or 100 years, will view the changes in climbing over the years, and the role of climbing in Yosemite in that? We may not have enough perspective at this point to say. Jim D loves to 'poke' the Yosemite-centric who are sometimes found here, based on his very wide experience around the USA and the world, in rock climbing and alpinism. In a way, Jeff L did so also - he was more interested in alpinism, but even so most of his bigger rock routes weren't in Yosemite. John G and John S have also offered very helpful thoughts. The world of climbing is much bigger than Yosemite. There's a lot many of us don't know about what has been done elsewhere, and many of us are too invested to be objective.
Noting that all those mentioned have context that many of us don't, notwithstanding the abundance of silverbacks around here. Joe Taylor's book "Pilgrims of the Vertical" also had some interesting thoughts on the sociological aspects.
Someone remarked up thread that the ascents of Half Dome (1875) and the Lost Arrow & Chimney (1947) were the peak of Yosemite climbing, which may be overstating things. Still, the main contributions of Yosemite to world climbing and mountaineering may in future be seen as:
1. Development of modern rope belay techniques.
2. Hard steel pitons.
3. Emphasis on style, carrying forward the British (and Norwegian, and probably other) traditions.
4. Techniques and equipment for big rock walls, for the specialized types of climbing often found in Yosemite (e.g. chimneys and offwidths), and the later focus on long free routes.
5. Proselytizing the use of these techniques elsewhere in the world, and providing a crucible for the world's climbers to interact and practice.
So for a while Yosemite was the "it" climbing destination, on everyone's lips - at a time when it was more expensive to travel. But fairly quickly climbers from elsewhere assimilated, and built on what they'd learned. By the 1980s Yosemite no longer was the premier destination for rock climbers, to the extent that it ever was. In a way, it had been eaten by its young. Although it may never have been so far in the lead as was sometimes said. Is the Bonatti Pillar, done solo in the 1950s, really a "lesser" climb than say the Nose of El Capitan, done in 1958? How does the winter ascent of the Eiger Direct in 1966 compare with say the Muir Wall? Etc etc.
If you think about it another way, in terms of significant technical innovations for climbing, the USA dominated from the 1940s - 1970s, in large part due to the war and the following economic and recreation booms. But many important advances from the 1960s on were initiated outside the USA:
 Sit harnesses (Whillans may have been the first widely-available commercial version).
The evolution of nuts, and development into wedges and hexes, which still are in use.
Belay plates, eventually leading to belay devices, toproping, and so on. Was the first the Stitch? Do belay devices cause toproping?
PAs and then EBs. Sorry, the RR was only suitable for wall climbing, edging, and some wide cracks. The Europeans came up with footwear and rubber that was better suited to climbing.
Some of these things may also have contributed significantly to the democratization of climbing. Hard to imagine climbing gyms and sport climbing without sit harnesses and belay devices. The increased numbers in turn generating enough commercial activity to support more R&D, and eventually to cannonball contests in Salt Lake City.
I don't have any particular thoughts about Valley climbing in the 1980s, although I was there occasionally then, mostly as a gromet. But whether the perceived and actual role of Yosemite in the world of climbing and mountaineering diminished then and later is an interesting subject.
ps When and where will the heretic-burning take place?
pps Ditto what jstan says, although we do OK cleaning up garbage and graffiti at Stawamus Chief Provincial Park. Although climbers as a group have a long way to go before they're truly sustainable.
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jstan
climber
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At this time Yosemite is arguably a world leader in the elimination of trash and the cooperation of climbers with other citizens to that end. Yosemite has never been more exciting than it is now.
120 is the longest and most difficult route I have ever been on.
Edit:
Jim: Have you read the title to this thread?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 11, 2016 - 01:58pm PT
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I could be wrong, but I don't believe LA Chimney was a free route when it was put up in 1947.
But how about some props for the unsung 80's player who onsight soloed it? He posts here as eeyonkee. His only aid was a copy of the Myth of Sisyphus, that he brought along in case he had to wait.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Aug 11, 2016 - 11:23pm PT
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Kevin touched on it.......Southern Belle is the apogee and culmination, the top of the arc, for me as to what Yosemite is and was. No other climb better represents Yosemite's style, ethics, etc. A definition of what 'hard' is became cloudy with the onset of techiniques used to discover a more physical way to climb. Numbers rose in that realm but not, to my mind in the mental game...Carignan and Moffet both climbed hard trad but nothing like the Belle and thus the blurring of grades...The Pheonix is 5.13, the Belle 5.12D and yet which is the truly harder climb? One has since been soloed and that same soloist is one of four or six people to make it to the top of the Belle on a rope. For me the Yosemite climbing experience represents a much more humanistic climbing experience in both mind and body that resonates to this day.
Different games!
The onset of sport climbing simply took the light and shone it somewhere else and many Valley climbers from the 80's went with it: Kenny, Kurt, Coz, Schnieder, et.al. were on board and went on to shine there as well. But to say the Valley was lagging behind is a view held by those seeing it from the perspective of those different games. Climbs like the Belle and The Black Rose (both rated far below the current sport grades of 5.15+) represent a very different sort of 'hard' and few were and are up to them. But it's human nature to favor ones own game when, in fact climbing is composed of many different facets, all of which have merit in the eyes of their beholders....
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Aug 15, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
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Tut....Agree and love the old climbs. For me the adventure (as Warbler has pointedly pointed out in paraphrase) was when Higgins and Kamps et al started the face game without aid....Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. And right, the Belle was a result of the way it progressed in Yosemite. The eighties brought along a much different game, largely played outside Yosemite. One that proved to be (so far) much more palatable to the masses (no judgement, just fact) and that popularity, along with the human trait to put popularity above all else, took focus away from a other games (Yosemite included). I still believe Yosemite offers cutting edge climbing in the form unique to it - how can it not? Just fewer players. Thus the eighties were an very important turning point. The Belle didn't get climbed by the superstars of other games but Schultz and Cos were certainly on the same plane in there game as the Moffet's and Carigan's were in theirs and may be unsurpassed to this day in their genre so to speak. What interests me is how society of the day informs these games. It get's touched on but most of us are hard pressed to look outside our own boxes.....
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Aug 15, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
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Tut, Quote Read up on those old routes, I think they are truly eye opening...5 days and nights in the LA Chimney...with 12 carabiners and 18 pitons that Salathe made himself (the only hard pitons in the world)
The Euros had this type of climbing going on at the beginning of the 1900s, their perspective towards was likely to collide with the American ideas of difficulty.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Aug 16, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
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Tut, the real amazing climbing was the pure rock stuff in Austria and the Dolomites. You are right about how Yosemite had different challenges.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2016 - 05:52pm PT
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^^^
The interview which John linked in the above post is definitely worth a read.
Here is the arc: Yosemite in the 1980s as a training ground for the greater ranges was a concept that was alive and well, and robust. And it culminated in The Grand Voyage.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
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The Grand Voyage, also here:
http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/Grand.html
... And I'm pretty sure "Toto" a.k.a. Xaver Bongard wrote an article for one of the magazines?
IIRC it was quite well done and featured a spread photograph of El Capitan reflected in the waters of the Merced? ... Or floodwaters in El Cap Meadow?
(Steel Monkey? You got that one?)
Here is Toto's version as posted on John's website:
http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/XGrand.html
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Sep 14, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
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LA Chimney was totally a new standard of commitment and technical difficulty and innovation for the time
As I recall reading and hearing about it, the hardened piton gear was new, the technique of the cleaner jugging (prusiking) the rope was new, hauling the pack (and not wearing it) was new, and spending that many days on a pure rock route was new.
It was America's first Grade V big wall route. The first Grade VI didn't get done until Half Dome, in 1957, or 1958.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Sep 14, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
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Sorry, kingtut - missed your question.
Lost Arrow Chimney, and Spire, were originally largely aid climbs. The chimney wasn't freed until the 1960s. By the standards of the late 1940s, it was an impressive climb, but equally impressive things were being done in places like the Dolomites - although admittedly not with the key innovation of hard steel pitons.
Anderson's ascent of Half Dome was sui generis - no one did anything remotely like it until perhaps the 1910s, more likely the 1930s or later. That is, use of a bolt ladder to ascend - although IIRC Anderson's line can now largely be freed, and there are some cracks for pitons, which didn't exist in California in 1875.
It's probably too subjective a question to ask here, and too many are invested in the answer(s). But parochial propaganda aside, was Yosemite really the centre of the (rock) climbing universe from the late 1950s on, or has it simply been in a leading position from time to time since then?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Sep 15, 2016 - 01:29am PT
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was Yosemite really the centre of the (rock) climbing universe from the late 1950s on, or has it simply been in a leading position from time to time since then
Some people like to say that other places, like, say, the Shawangunks, have held the title, from time to time.
But, I don't think there is any reasonable doubt that Yosemite was where modern big-wall climbing was established and mastered. It is not a coincidence that Kim Schmitz, a Yosemite master, pioneered doing big walls in the Karakoram regime.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Sep 15, 2016 - 01:59am PT
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'was Yosemite really the centre of the (rock) climbing universe from the late 1950s on, or has it simply been in a leading position from time to time since then'..
It's been alluded to, but if you have any knowledge of European climbing in Austria and the Dolomites, then you would know the answer. Climbs of the same level of difficulty and commitment as the LA chimneys were being done in the 1930s, with poorer equipment.
Undoubtedly Yosemite's pioneers developed a range of techniques that have been adopted around the world, but I doubt they were any more 'bold' at the time.
IMHO the Valley's great contribution was in opening the climbing worlds eyes to the fact that such huge, steep and seemingly blank walls could be climbed.
Steve
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jstan
climber
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Sep 15, 2016 - 07:49am PT
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If it were possible for one person or area to be the center, what a poor experience that would be.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
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Thanks for the good words, Roy! Hope to reconnect with you soon. Really appreciate your objective recollections of the era, and of course the rare photos you captured of the era. Looking forward to more of your writing! Cheers
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BigB
Trad climber
Red Rock
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Sep 15, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
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^^its def the mecca
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Sep 15, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
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Warbs, the Dolomites have attracted foreign climbers for a century...
... Yosemite was different because it was big granite.
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