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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:45pm PT
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Sheriff has the only power of arrest in this case. He has all the power over the BLM if their actions are iillegal and in his jurisdiction.
Yeah, but that isn't what you said chief. You said
Clark County sheriff had the only power to do anything, and he intervened at the end to avoid a slaughter and uphold the ranchers legal right to keep his cattle on the grazing land.
Which is simply wrong, as I pointed out. If yall would stop hyperbolizing every fuking aspect of every fuking story and stay at least somewhat consistent with your claims you might find you have a tad more support. As it is you all look like a bunch of headless sociopaths running around looking for any possible excuse to fight the power, often changing your claims hour by hour. If you are going to start a revolution you might want to put a little more thought into it. Yall act like teenage anarchists... with way worse music... and far too eager to spill blood.
So far I've read wingnuts claiming: 1) it is legally Bundy's land (all 600,000 acres), 2) it is state land, 3) it was Bundy's land that the BLM stole from him (but two courts disagree), 4) the Feds are stealing the land for endangered tortoises, no wait 5) oil... what, no oil... I mean 6) minerals. And now the local sheriff is "upholding the rancher's legal right" to graze his cattle on federal land... against multiple court orders, which kinda destroys the whole "legal right" part.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:46pm PT
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A succinct summary of the US Gov't position:
"We remain disappointed that Cliven Bundy continues to not comply with the same laws that 16,000 public lands ranchers do every year," said the BLM director in the release. "After 20 years and multiple court orders to remove the trespass cattle, Mr. Bundy owes the American taxpayers in excess of $1 million. The BLM will continue to work to resolve the matter administratively and judicially." Credit: Salt Lake Tribune
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57810957-78/amp-cattle-bundy-blm.html.csp
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:53pm PT
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But...but...doesn't everyone LOVE Big Brother?
George Orwell, 1984.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:58pm PT
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Bundy and his fellow violent far right wing extremists win round 1. See ya in court, traitor.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:02pm PT
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The point most here have no knowledge of, is the content and phraseology in the Homestead acts; which most lawyers don't, either. If Bundy's land was ever homesteaded, and he is the heir or assign thereto, there's absolutely NO way his title can be denied or set aside. Going into the law completely illustrates that the land cannot even be assessed property taxes! I suspect that Mr. Bundy will ultimately prevail in court, and the United States Court of Claims will uphold him if homesteaded land is involved.
To whom are you addressing as traitor?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:04pm PT
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I think there are two separate issues here. One is the specific case of Bundy and the other is the anger and distrust of a large segment of the public, especially out West and in the South, toward our supposedly democratic government. I'm beginning to think there are not just red states and blue states but a red nation and a blue nation within our supposedly one nation.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:06pm PT
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brokedown, are you suggesting Bundy owns all 600,000 acres in question? Very doubtful. I'm sure he owns some... but that isn't the point. He has been illegally grazing his cattle on federal land, not his land, and has not been paying the appropriate fees... because he is a freeloading teabagger anarchist.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:14pm PT
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Brokedown: There is much I want to say on this thread, but since you bring this up!
Later on, his wife was Helen Cheneweth, the U.S. Congresswoman from Idaho. He had excellent advice on what to do.
I have found it interesting that Miz Cheneweth, whose entire political career, was based on opposing Government regulations: died because she had not fastened her seat-belt.
On October 2, 2006, Chenoweth-Hage was killed after being thrown from the passenger seat of a sport utility vehicle that overturned on an isolated highway in central Nevada, near Tonopah. She was not wearing a seatbelt and was thrown from the car. Her (step) daughter-in-law and grandson, who were also in the vehicle, suffered only minor injuries.[16]
Nearly poetic justice.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:14pm PT
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As I understand it Bundy had some of his grazing rights revoked and then stopped paying grazing fees on all of it, which was his mistake. Don't forget they got Al Capone on tax evasion, not bootlegging or murder.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:17pm PT
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The answer there is: who TF knows how much land he owns? He's a member of the LDS church with huge families, and some of that land earlier was sold by the section for next to nothing. a section is 640 acres, by the way I don't know what the price was but it could have been as low as 5 cents an acre. I do recall when I was at the University in Laramie in the 1960s, Alcoa bought up hundreds of sections with Alumina ore (Bauxite) at $25,000 a section and everyone thought they were insane to pay that much for $0.50 an acre land!
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:17pm PT
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The various homestead acts provided for transfer of title in fee of lands to individuals under certain circumstances. None of those acts allowed more than taking more than quarter of a section and none required payment of grazing fees after transfer of title. If Mr. Bundy has title to lands he can easily prove it.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:20pm PT
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It would be one thing if Bundy offered his beef at a discount well below what normal ranchers who pay the fees. If Bundy's beef is at full market price, haul him to jail for ripping off the American people. If Bundy cut the price to exclude costs for property taxes, permit fees, mortgage, etc. like everyone else pays, I'd be first in line for his welfare range-fed beef.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:29pm PT
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If he has the land via the Homestead Act then he's got a deed. Even if he can't find it, it was recorded when it was granted.
I'm pretty sure the largest piece of land granted under the Homestead Act (actually there were several) was 640 acres. One section. And that wasn't until 1904.
I doubt there is any Homestead Act issue here.
Bundy claims his rights devolve from his Mormon ancestors.
Bundy claims his ancestors worked the land long before the BLM was formed, giving him rights that predate federal involvement. From the preceding SLTribune article.
The Mormons founded the town of Mesquite (next to Bunkerville) in 1880. Bunkerville was founded as a cooperative community in 1877 but that experiment ended in 1880.
From the March 27 Bunkerville town meeting minutes:
COMMENT: Representatives from the BLM or NPS had advised earlier in the week they would not attend. Janice provided the phone numbers for Senator Reed and Congressman Heller and suggested that everyone call to let them know this round up issue is a problem. At a minimum it is disrespectful that they did not come to the meeting tonight to let you know what is going on. Ryan Bundy stated they don’t agree that the Federal Government controls the land the cattle are on, that should be State land. He said they have used the land since 1887, and they will resist any attempt by the BLM to take their cattle. Some Board members expressed concern that the land would remain closed after the cattle were removed.
No mention of "this round up issue" in any previous meeting back as far as August.
They had another big public safety/nuisance problem then.
Issues surrounding Bunkerville 4th of July water fight – discussion and possible action. Duane said the water fight is getting out of hand and people are being water blasted that do not want to participate. It has become a free for all.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:33pm PT
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Bruce, I really don't know. I'm still trying to figure it all out. It sure isn't how people thought in Japan!
Part of it was that we were so naive and propagandized by the government before, that when we began to see how things really work, we swung too far in the opposite direction, seeing conspiracies everywhere and becoming overly cynical?
Or the fact that the average person doesn't get as much benefit from the government as other citizens of modern democracies do, yet we have as much or more bureaucracy and regulation as the others.
Or maybe just too much change too fast?
or maybe just too many grumpy old baby boomers?
I don't know.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:38pm PT
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Taxpayer-subsidized grazing isn't a benefit?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:44pm PT
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Well Base, the Pine valley fields immediately come to mind as well Elko county and its big bet by Noble Energy.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:45pm PT
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I sure don’t blame the people out there who are squatting on public land from resisting having to move to the city and either get a real job or stand in line like everyone else for a free handout. After all, who would want to give up their free “public assistance” public land grazing to grow very profitable cattle when the Las Vegas welfare line is what’s next? I’ve heard of welfare ranching, but this is the “American Rip-off Ranching Corp.” I’ll bet Walmart is involved.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:47pm PT
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I just tried to check the BLM GLO website to see how much homesteaded land anyone in Nevada named Bundy owned, but their site is not working. Normally you can see a photocopy of the original title and often times the original survey plat. I wonder if the site has been hacked ??
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 11:52pm PT
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New Nevada Lands LLC is one of the largest private land owners in NV. They own ~500,000 acres. How likely is it that the 600,000 acres Bundy has been using for decades actually belongs to him? At 640 acres per homesteader, he would have had to consolidate nearly 1000 individual homesteads. Ranchers don't do that... they use public lands for a fee.
Answer: it ain't his land... he was grazing his cattle illegally... he owes over $1 million in past grazing fees plus fines... he is a criminal willing to use violence and anti-government extremists to get what he wants.
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