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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Nov 11, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
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No, you just want to find racism everywhere! You cannot debate conservatism without calling people racists! That is your only card. Welcome to Jesse and Al Sharpton's playbook.
It's true! I've called you a racist in literally every post I've ever posted on this site! Especially in the ones where you're a huge racist. Funny thing about apologizing for slavery is you'll get called a racist a lot. I know it's hard but you have to stand by your convictions, bluering. Even if you're persecuted. Just keep your head up and some day, down the road, you'll be hailed as true believer by some other people who also think it's ok that America enslaved people.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
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Here is a link with a photo and explanation .... the first national flag of the confederacy... it only takes 5 seconds to see it... don't be so lazy!! It is an interesting read too... lots of flags were involved... seems it was not an easy deal at all.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/1national.htm
Go back a couple of pages Bluering... that is Largo posting ... no?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Nov 11, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
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Sounds like your aunt mistakenly thought the more popular, more well-known version was the original.
Wow, your experience with the real world is THAT small and narrow, isn't it?
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
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good point Bruch3y (whoever you are in reality) but you left out one group in your listing above... People who think that violence is the way to settle differences.. like wife beaters, bullies, dictatorships, military oriented nations who abuse their power, ... you know... "Mealy mouthing punch of pansies"... Very scholarly, surely an effective phrase in making a convincing argument.
I am particularly offended by religious icons, placed on government land, supposedly owned by all citizens, no matter their faith, by those of a particular faith, who feel that they have the right to do so. That said, I don't have the slightest intention of tearing the icons down and beating up a few members of that religious group. We have laws and courts to settle such differences of opinion.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
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So Burch3y I gather that violence is ok if used in the manner you wish it to be used. Logic? Law? Where? Fortunately you are in a position, like the rest of us, of having no real power... all you have is your intellect to convince others of your view.... unfortunately you don't have convincing arguments and you resort to unlawful "solutions" and slander. Very convincing indeed.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
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Bruch3y... you said "we have laws..." So in a society that is ruled by laws we should use those laws. Assault someone, as you suggest, and you will be just another felon sitting in jail.. I just have a hard time trying to label a guy with a confederate battle flag decal on the back window of his truck, as a racist. People have a right to put any sticker on their truck that they want... it is not for you or me to fix any particular motive to it... it is theirs' to own. As we have seen in many of these posts, that flag means different things to different people and to say it has only one meaning and that is the meaning you or I affix to it, will not get anything done.
As you suggest, we have plenty of racism in this country and it has been a long and difficult struggle to convince people that is not a good thing... some will never be convinced, as long as they don't act on it, we have to let it slide. The days of the slavery that some associate with that flag are long gone, and we should accept as fact, when people tell us that it doesn't mean slavery, racism and oppression to them, that they are truthful. Someone posting way above, mentioned the Pirate Flag being a hateful symbol of fear and death and now we think nothing of it and some people proudly call themselves "Pirates". So it goes... maybe in time, probably not in our lifetimes, the flag thing will be just another decal on a truck, as it is to many now. We sure are not going to convince people of anything by threats and name calling... that has only served, in the past, to harden minds and hearts... the exact opposite of what we wish to achieve.
Just another mealy-mouthed post from an old man.
Norton... sickening.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Nov 11, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
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Have you witnessed someone telling a young couple and their beautiful mixed daughter that they were disgusting?
My mom had her father tell her something along the lines of: 'if you ever marry a nigger I'll blow your head off to save your soul.' Yes, he displayed his confederate flag proudly on his truck.
My aunt refused to let her daughter live with her anymore because she got knocked up by a "nigger." 10-years later and they are on okay terms: my aunt loves her grandchildren and 'those people can be nice.'
But hey, what good is a symbol if we can't decide it has whatever meaning we want it to have?
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jstan
climber
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Nov 11, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
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I am surprised at you Largo... Normally you offer some kind of persuasion and logic, presented in a civil tone, to lead others to a better understanding of your views so they can be considered in a more serious way. It seems you have fallen into the irrational slander, name calling and ugliness that seems to pervade this thread... how does it feel down there in the mud Bro? T/E
I have not said some things because, really, there is only so much it is useful to say. Maybe I need to say more. Two or three years ago John dealt with me saying, "You don't have any imagination." Well that's OK. He may be right.
Then we have a couple of years of Largo tying people in knots with arguments that the only thing that is real is what is going on in his brain. Well, OK. That too may be true. But then. But then he passed up a golden chance to settle, for the first time in 4000 years a philosophical question.
IS THERE A REAL WORLD OUT THERE.
Are the emf's in his brain the only reality? He had a chance to settle that millennium old question once and for all. But he gave it a pass. No, he whiffed it. Never considered it.
He could have had his foot amputated rather than drawing in all of 21st century medicine to save it. And if he had declined both anesthesia and pain control he would have known, absolutely, there is something outside of his brain. After it was all over he could tell something real was no longer there. Just by reaching down. There was a confirming test.
The bull sh#t is beyond all belief. And we seem to keep signing up for it.
Now, the real point.
People say one should say exactly what you think. I have done so, just above. But you see what we think is just a millivolt or so of emf's. It really does not amount to much.
What we think is what we think. Nothing more. The question is, do we actually
do something constructive?
That's the tough one.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
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Yo John, would it be constructive to post something in such a way that it convinces someone to consider an alternative position, that may, in fact, change their views or actions? Maybe just one person??? Or do we plunge into the muck and fight like reptiles?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Nov 11, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
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Good point. It's not that people have a totally irrational dislike of others based on the color of their skin it's that they haven't heard a good argument against it yet.
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jstan
climber
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Nov 11, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
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Yo John, would it be constructive to post something in such a way that it convinces someone to consider an alternative position, that may, in fact, change their views or actions? Maybe just one person??? Or do we plunge into the muck and fight like reptiles?
I am of the opinion public replies are pretty generally non-constructive.
If you want something actually to be considered, use a PM.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Nov 12, 2013 - 01:45am PT
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Bruch3y hopefully you will swing into action soon and solve the problem by doing some real violence on someone. I can see that there is no need to discuss anything further with you, as you seem to have it all figured out. Perhaps you will get to see some real, modern racism, from the inside of a corrections facility. Let us know how that works for you bro.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Nov 12, 2013 - 02:29am PT
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And while I'm at it, most southern resentment comes from the slash and burn tactics by the north after the south was defeated + reconstruction. Really no one can complain that the union army suppressed succession, any more than a state or county could seriously gripe about it now.
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Nov 12, 2013 - 05:30am PT
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Just another elephant mouth with a hummingbird ass. Spout all you'd like about kicking ass here in California where we could give a sh#t (my mother being black and all). Take your crusade down to Mississipi and eastern Alabama, throw a few punches down there and let us know how it works out for you.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Nov 12, 2013 - 09:37am PT
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“I speak to everyone in the same way, whether he is the garbage man or the president of the university.”
― Albert Einstein
Fyodor Dostoyevsky
“Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love.”
Stieg Larsson
“Friendship- my definition- is built on two things. Respect and trust. Both elements have to be there. And it has to be mutual. You can have respect for someone, but if you don't have trust, the friendship will crumble.”
Leo Tolstoy
“Respect was invented to cover the empty place where love should be.”
Winston Churchill
“I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.”
Steve Maraboli
“How would your life be different if…You stopped making negative judgmental assumptions about people you encounter? Let today be the day…You look for the good in everyone you meet and respect their journey.”
Harper Lee
“As you grow older, you'll see white men cheat black men every day of your life, but let me tell you something and don't you forget it - whenever a white man does that to a black man, no matter who he is, how rich he is, or how fine a family he comes from, he is trash.”
Confucius
“Respect yourself and others will respect you.”
“The truest form of love is how you behave toward someone, not how you feel about them.”
― Steve Hall
Simone Elkeles
“Love is honesty. Love is a mutual respect for one another.”
Wm. Paul Young
“Submission is not about authority and it is not obedience; it is all about relationships of love and respect.”
Theodore Roosevelt
“I am an American; free born and free bred, where I acknowledge no man as my superior, except for his own worth, or as my inferior, except for his own demerit.”
Mahatma Gandhi
“I cannot conceive of a greater loss than the loss of one's self-respect.”
Mary Balogh
“I can be hurt, she said, only by people I respect.”
Hermann Hesse
“It may be important to great thinkers to examine the world, to explain and despise it. But I think it is only important to love the world, not to despise it, not for us to hate each other, but to be able to regard the world and ourselves and all beings with love, admiration and respect.”
Chief Seattle
“The earth does not belong to us. We belong to the earth.”
Immanuel Kant
“Always treat people as ends in themselves, never as means to an end.”
Thomas S. Monson
“When we treat people merely as they are, they will remain as they are. When we treat them as if they were what they should be, they will become what they should be. ”
Steve Maraboli
“How would your life be different if…You approached all relationships with authenticity and honesty? Let today be the day…You dedicate yourself to building relationships on the solid foundation of truth and authenticity.”
Dave Barry
“I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me.”
Jarod Kintz
“Respect doesn’t have to be shiny. It just needs to be wearable. Would you be so kind as to hold my jockstrap while I stir your hot coffee?
my favorite:
Duane Allman's personal philosophy of life was very simple and basic. He once said, "Everything's the same everywhere. There are nice folks, and ass-holes, and you have to learn to distinguish between the two in order to get by. And someone who's an ass-hole to somebody may be a nice folk to somebody else, so you've got to learn to be nice to everybody, and show everybody respect, that's the only way people respect you. You've got to have mutual respect and a little bit of love, if you can round it up. And don't be afraid to share what's inside of you with other people. That's the only way you're ever going to get free or have any fun all, either. So just rock on, and have you a good time. If I have a choice between having a good time and a shitty time, I'm going to have me a good time. I've had enough shitty times."
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Nov 12, 2013 - 10:06am PT
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Hey Sprock, your account has been hacked. Sorry, I mean, nice post.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 12, 2013 - 10:06am PT
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I will say it has been interesting at times to weed through this thread. There are some really good posts here if you don't let the other 90% bog you down.
Next time I see that confederate battle flag displayed I will try to take the time to have a conversation with the owner of it. I will be very curious as to why they have it up. I can imagine a whole range of reasons they might do so and will be genuinely interested to see what that person is about.
It is fascinating that that one strikingly colored flag can mean vastly different things to various people. Good and bad.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Nov 12, 2013 - 10:35am PT
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I liked the story Off White posted, but it sure would have been nice to hear/see the conversation between the piano player (unarmed) and the Klansman (with his armed body guard).
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