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command error
Trad climber
Colorado
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It's actually encouraging. From the viewpoint of keeping the rest of the world a little scared of the United States.
They already know they cannot stand against our military but its icing on the cake to have implanted into the worlds citizenry a mindset that Americans can all pull a gun out and shoot if given the provocation.
You know the old argument about intentions versus capabilities.*.)
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mdavid
Big Wall climber
High Springs, FL
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Gotta love threads where folks call each other idiots arguing points of view they'd never change.
As for me, statistics are irrelevant.
I had to pull a gun on a man who had ordered my pregnant wife out of a car at gunpoint in Seattle. I came within seconds of killing him right then and there, luckily he turned and left.
I'll never put myself in a position to let some criminal hurt me or my loved ones while I sit by powerless.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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"This list I pasted shows the percentage of African American population."
So, I'll try asking again - those are gun murder stats?
We're having a little "failure to communicate."
I did not post any murder stats, gun or otherwise.
I just posted the "List of U.S. states by African-American population" taken form Widipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population
Whether it's interesting or not that there seems to be some correlation between the states you mentioned in your recent posts and the list--draw your own conclusions.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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But none of that will happen due to fed policies being imposed.
Stupid presumption of innocence... like that is even a cornerstone of democracy or universal human right or anything!
drives crime rates lower these days in the cities and towns that have SYG and CCW laws. Murders are also going down. But never mind pesky facts.
Yeah, never mind those pesky "facts" for which you have never provided any actual evidence.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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I don't think the "discussion" here will resolve the question of whether a waiting period will reduce murder/suicide events, but I was kind of surprised no explicit link to the original event has been posted yet.
Pate's original description agrees with these reports on the essential details.
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/05/31/arrest-affidavit-reveals-details-of-suicide-note-found-by-police/
http://www.steamboattoday.com/news/2013/may/31/lisa-marie-lesyshen-arrested-charges-first-degree-/
http://www.steamboattoday.com/news/2013/jun/11/routt-county-sheriffs-office-making-arrangements-p/
It was apparently not due to a misinterpreted facebook photo, though. Quoting from the 3rd link:
"According to the warrant, Kirlan told his wife on May 27 that he was in a relationship with another woman. That same day, Lesyshen bought a Smith & Wesson .22-caliber revolver from a Steamboat pawn shop after passing a background check. Also that day at about 6:30 p.m., a neighbor told investigators she had a conversation with Lesyshen via text messages. The neighbor reported that Lesyshen asked her if she had any .22-caliber bullets because kids were coming over to shoot guns off the deck. The neighbor told her she did not have any bullets.
The next day, May 28, investigators say Lesyshen went to a Steamboat gun store and bought bullets. Kirlan received a text message from his wife later that day asking if he was coming home, according to a warrant. The shootings occurred in the early morning hours of May 29."
Also,
she is fine with a superficial wound to her scalp. No, she is paralyzed (spinal cord injury at the neck). Unclear if permanent.
Perhaps the moral is "if you are going to shoot yourself, don't use a .22" (try .38 maybe). And of course shoot yourself before shooting others.... :-)
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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haha... madbolter1 has got to be the biggest beotch on the planet. He can't back up his pathetic bullsh!t so he whines to CMac and tries to get me banned. What a fuking pussy!
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Bowser
Social climber
Durango CO
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mdavid,
Your story should be headlined in mainstream news media. You took responsibility to protect your family against someone who intended great harm. And kudos for realizing you were not going to have to kill the guy. Let's just hope he got the message and decides that kind of behavior will not be tolerated by armed citizens.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Thats the point isn't it?
If it goes bad it makes the news, but use of guns for self defense (often without firing) is so common that you will never see it leading on the nightly news.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Gotta love threads where folks call each other idiots arguing points of view they'd never change.
As for me, statistics are irrelevant.
I had to pull a gun on a man who had ordered my pregnant wife out of a car at gunpoint in Seattle. I came within seconds of killing him right then and there, luckily he turned and left.
I'll never put myself in a position to let some criminal hurt me or my loved ones while I sit by powerless.
Likely most here won't change their minds, but the past ten years have completely changed mine. Most gun-nut posts here reinforce that opinion change.
This isn't about putting any law-abiding person in a position where they are unable to defend themselves, this is about constitutional restrictions which will reduce the likelihood of ever needing to do so. I don't think waiting periods would have a significant reduction in crime or murders, but I am confident that the odds of someone full of rage calming down in seven days, or finding a less lethal outlet for that rage is far greater than the odds of a law-abiding person being murdered while waiting seven days to buy a gun. Look at that recent nutjob at the boardwalk, in other states he could have bought a gun on the spot.
The Gun Nuts have never come close to showing that the numbers of lawful civilian defensive actions using guns are even in the same order of magnitude as the unlawful uses. They compare murders with every time someone carries a gun for defense, but forget the tens of thousands of injuries, hundreds of thousands of threats and the millions of people who live in fear of violence in our cities.
None of the various proposed restrictions would affect the lawful actions but would over time reduce the ease of access by criminals for unlawful purposes.
TE
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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i've got a great idea, why doesnt the next mass shooting happen in a gun shop. why doesnt someone go into a gun shop, purchase an automatic shotgun, pay for it, load it and blast the sh#t out of everyone in the store. maybe that would change some redneck minds.
This is a quote by the OP from the first post on this thread.
Anyone that thinks along these lines should never be allowed to own a firearm and should be identified as such.
I won't argue with tail-chaser hedge but, if this is an example of the mentality of most anti-gunners, their 'cause' will most certainly self-destruct.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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That link and site layout is weird, the interesting parts are at:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/
There are also several other interesting pages linked from the left column.
Pesky facts. Probably just made up by those commie liberals in Massachusetts.
We found that one-third of adolescents reported handling a firearm, 5% without adult supervision or knowledge. Smoking, drinking and parents not knowing the child’s whereabouts in the afternoon were associated with unsupervised gun handling. These events usually occur away from home, with friends. Half involve shooting the gun.
I'm surprised those number are so low, a testament to responsible gun owners, or proof that teenagers will lie?. I was taught and shown responsible gun handling as soon as I could walk far enough to go hunting, but that there accurately describes several of my late teenage evenings and weekends...
TE
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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After reading the above information, I can now make more sense of Joe and his cohorts.
It must be terrible to be so afraid and angry. Living like that must take so much energy.
Too bad.
Burly Bob
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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"It explains a lot of that crazy "rage" you'll frequently see in rabidly anti types."
Every other comparably developed, industrialized democracy on earth is crazy, then. Because they've all outlawed guns to various extents.
But of course, that's iirrelevant, because it destroys your argument, and makes you look like a myopic fool.
The US and the individual states have all "outlawed guns to various extents" also, some of just think that they've outlawed them to a more-or-less reasonable degree already. And as you implicitly note, not all the "developed, industrialized" democracies have outlawed guns to the same extent. (And the US is not necessarily as comparable to Western Europe as the libs would have you believe; we're similar to Europe in some ways, but probably more similar to Brazil and Mexico in others.)
It is a fair question as to why the anti-gun nuts seem so angry--it's not as if we're ever going to get proof of it (not all of them admit it, and they may not know themselves), but I thought the link gave some plausible theories and reasonable suggestions on how to deal with them.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Remember this guy from your beloved UK (sorry the pic is tiny; but I think you see who I'm talking about)?
Is that what we can expect here when we finally regain our senses and outlaw guns even to the extent that most police don't have them, so terrorists walk around cutting people's heads off, and the docile population just goes about its business.
Sorry but I'll stick with our good ol' gun laws and have a little American pride.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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"It explains a lot of that crazy "rage" you'll frequently see in rabidly anti types."
Every other comparably developed, industrialized democracy on earth is crazy, then. Because they've all outlawed guns to various extents.
But of course, that's iirrelevant, because it destroys your argument, and makes you look like a myopic fool.
Lashing out Hedge? What a surprise. See yourself in that article eh? I thought so.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/05/us/pennsylvania-town-hall-shooting/index.html
(CNN) -- Three people were killed and several more were wounded in a shooting at a town supervisors' meeting in eastern Pennsylvania, officials said Monday night.
Earlier, Pennsylvania State Police said four people were killed, but later revised that number.
The shooting broke out around 7:30 p.m. ET at the Ross Township building in Saylorsburg, about 75 miles north of Philadelphia, Monroe County Emergency Management Director Guy Miller told CNN.
Police identified the suspect as Rockne Newell of Saylorsburg. Newell was among those shot and was being treated at Pocono Medical Center Monday night. Police said exactly how he was shot is under investigation.
State police Lt. Robert Bartel said Newell had an ongoing dispute with officials involving the condemnation of his property and issues with his sewer. Bartel said it's not clear whether Newell knew any of the victims shot.
According to several here, this man is a patriot upholding his constitutional right to oppose government tyranny. The plan of the Founding Fathers, more dead people.
Blablah conveniently forgets to mention how many people those British "terrorists" killed, or injured... Pesky facts.
TE
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Well I'm late to this cat fight, but I'll pitch in anyway since a very early post brought tears to my eyes.
I know my uncle, my friend when I was 6, and some friends/relatives of friends would not have spread their brains across the wall with a fuking knife. My Father's good friends (and my acquaintances) Jerry and Galen (separately) 35 years ago, my neighbor's wife and our friend G 7 years ago and another neighbor's 19 year old son 3 months ago all spread their brains across the wall.
Would gun registration have prevented any of these? Doubtfully. Jerry was an ex Highway Patrolman, G's family had guns in the house for years, the 19 year old knew there was a gun stashed away in the garage that had been given to his dad and never used (or locked up).
SO why the hell do more than 30,000 Americans lose their lives to firearms every year?
The US has a Gun Culture. Where the gun is the quick easy answer to problems, personal or interpersonal.
Speaking of anger, WTF was neighborhood watchman Zimmerman even doing with a gun? He had a car, his own eyes, and a radio. He was in contact with the police dispatcher. The notion that he felt empowered to chase down Trayvon Martin for any reason is social madness. That he also carried a gun is insane.
The notion that two fully suited up San Jose police officers have the right to shoot a non-threatening Vietnamese woman holding a vegetable slicer is social madness.
The thought that Adam Lanza's mother had the right to fill her house with an arsenal of weapons is social madness.
Do we sell dynamite in the hardware store? No, you've got to have a license to buy it. To get a license you've got to have training. And why is that? Because even though MOST people would use dynamite responsibility, the social cost for irresponsible use is UNACCEPTABLE.
Tell me how gun ownership is any different. Besides your warped interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.
What part of "well regulated militia" implies that any idiot or moron or really angry person can purchase any sort and any number of firearms he/she likes? And in many states on a moment's notice!
OH, and speaking of absurd arguments. When the 2nd Amendment was written, the guns were muzzle loaded matchlocks. Even the Colt revolver and repeating rifle came half a century later. Glocks and AR-16's? Give me a break.
So as long as I'm rambling, back to my original concern: suicide.
There's a HELLUVA difference in committing suicide with a gun versus a knife, pills, jumping off El Cap or even swinging from a rope (which a friend of mine's teenage daughter did).
The gun is EASY. and nearly always fatal. And although I suppose not many people have survived to tell about it, at least the suicide candidate can believe it will be instantaneous and painless. Unlike the other means.
I see absolutely no good reason (except the insanity of our gun culture) that firearms shouldn't be:
registered from point of manufacture to time of destruction;
only available to licensed users;
and users carry liability insurance just as we have to do for cars.
Then gun owners will have a real incentive to see that guns are used responsibly!
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