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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Aug 25, 2012 - 01:53am PT
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"They should simply go after the new winners the way they went after Lance until they accept bans....Peace."--Karl Baba
I tend to think this would make the severe stance of the "authority" seem less like a witch hunt.
It might take the blood sport out of it.
Lance has a lot going for him for the good; he will sail through this mess, and when the sound and the fury are slackened, and the apostrophes are added, what will it matter?
I'm certainly not claiming he was an angel; nor am I claiming he's undeserving of having his titles stripped, etc. At first glance, there are some similarities here to Pete Rose's punishment. But betting on baseball or other ball games by players is, I don't believe, as prevalent an infraction of rules as doping in cycling. There are other differences, surely, which I won't try to say anything about, because what does it matter?
It's sad. Unsullied heroes are hard to come by, it seems.
"Say it ain't so, Joe."
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Aug 25, 2012 - 03:44am PT
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It's a good thing that old blood samples can be used and tested.
At one particular moment in time the dopers with highly qualified dope doctors are always ahead of the tests. But over time the tests catch up. This is the situation now. Even if you at present is on top of the dope ladder being able to get access to and pay the "best" dope doctors to give you substances that cannot at present be found because the tests are not yet developed, you are no longer sure, because there is a fair chance that in the future the tests will be available and the substances will be found in your old blood samples. The LA case is a good example. LA had access to the "best" dope doctors.
The dopers are now taking a chance - their cheating can be disclosed in the future even if they are ahead of the tests at present. This situation gives hope of a cleaner sport. I think only politicians in the pocket of corporations and other money-people (they have their hands deep into the structure of the sport) can block the chance of getting a cleaner sport.
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Some Random Guy
Trad climber
San Franphsyco
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Aug 25, 2012 - 04:10am PT
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Sadly, not really. Famously, the East German Olympics team doped heavily during the 70s and 80s. Long term health effects on athletes were terrible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_East_Germany
And here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2005/nov/01/athletics.gdnsport3
It's ben a whack-a-mole game ever since. And yes, curiously enough, testiculat cancer is one of the health problems.....
just think how outta control it would be if there were no regulation.....ha ha maybe i'm kinda sadistic for wanting to see that
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 25, 2012 - 04:19am PT
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Gaming the system with cheats and lies or trying to stay technically legal while being illegal in spirit is the American way
We went to Iraq knowing they didn't have WMDs, Romney pays a small percentage of the taxes he owes by exploiting tax havens and loopholes, and if you're not enjoying drugs for fun then your expecting Jesus to get you off the hook for your sins by having suffered in your place.
This is more of the same. Get what you want by any advantage, legit or not, that you can finagle
Peace
Karl
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One Nut
Social climber
Col De Galibier
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Aug 25, 2012 - 10:53am PT
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So Riley and Babba easy for you to sit back and bash away on a guy for passsing 500 doping tests.
Raised over 300 million for cancer research.
What the f*#k have you two done?
Stop bye the house we will have a few ultras I'll show you my testical in the jar and if you want we can go for a ride and talk about it.
Or you could go do something else other that post dribble of which you know nothing about really and volunteer a day at your local VA.
Peace
One Nut.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 25, 2012 - 10:59am PT
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Just because they took his crown away does not mean he is not still King. Hail Lance!!
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Aug 25, 2012 - 11:12am PT
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What if he payed off testers and used other folks' blood and urine for tests?
Possible.
Alot of drugs come into the country via the payoff route. Should have been possible to determine (probably still is) whether or not it was Armstrong's stuff.
I'll ask again, why doesn't the USADA publish everything they have?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 25, 2012 - 11:16am PT
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So Riley and Babba easy for you to sit back and bash away on a guy for passsing 500 doping tests.
I don't know what you're talking about Bro. Have you read my many posts on this thread?
I think they ought to leave the guy alone personally. Just commenting on the total picture of this sport and our society where winning is everything and anything goes if you can get away with it.
My guess, the LA did his best to do whatever he could to enhance his performance while being careful to stay on the side of not running afoul of testing. I think he was basically forced to do so as that's what everyone was doing and you couldn't compete at the very top without some form of illegal or not illegal yet enhancement.
So I don't blame him but rather cite it as the way to sport rolls...period
It's like how politicians have to raise millions to run for office with the Lion's share coming from elite money and corporations and then they claim they aren't influenced by needing and getting millions from those interests. Yeah, right. But then you see how they vote and the favors they do for those interests and you know the truth.
I applaud LAs good works and don't blame him for doing his best to win while not getting caught. What else to do? (even if you pay the price with your health but hey, maybe they are finding ways to Juice without killing yourself in the process. Time will tell)
Peace
Karl
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 25, 2012 - 11:22am PT
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For them to try to take away his lifetime wins is like saying Harding didn't get the 1st ascent of the Nose because he did not free it. Screw that. Keep on rocking Lance!!!
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Aug 25, 2012 - 11:37am PT
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Or conversely
he is a dope because he doped
implies alot of dopes in the world
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rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
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Aug 25, 2012 - 11:38am PT
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Chief...... Your jealousy of Lance Armstrong and his awesome success is showing. Lance Armstrong has been one of the most consistently tested athletes in history, with over 500 negative results. The US antidumping agency has NO concrete evidence, just the testimony of Lance's former teams, who have admitted to doping, agreeing to testify in exchange for leniency from prosecution (ie. Floyd Landis). Innocent until proven guilty. Let's see the evidence! The maliciousness of your thread is disgusting. SHAME ON YOU! Lance Armstrong is the greatest athlete to ever mount a bicycle, and a cancer survivor. Get on your bicycle and do some training yourself. Keep riding and running marathons, Lance!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Aug 25, 2012 - 11:42am PT
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this OBAMA administration is going after certain people and Lance is one of em.
Nothing wrong with blood enhancement.
something wrong with a government going after their own superstars.
good job travis from Anti-doping cuzz u suck.
long live the super lance!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 25, 2012 - 12:15pm PT
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Now that USADA has boinked Lance i think they should get on with their laundry list and go after Mercxk , Kelley , Lemond and the entire pro peloton....After all , money is no object to USADA especially when the US tax payers are picking up the tab..
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Aug 25, 2012 - 12:31pm PT
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if your following the Vuelta...
Convicted doper Valverde passed convicted doper Contador at the finish to win stage 8!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Aug 25, 2012 - 12:44pm PT
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How does someone pass hundreds of drug tests, without failing any, if the tests are worth anything?
Why administer tests in the first place? Wouldn't it be more effective to just ask around, if you want to find out who's doing what?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 25, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
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For them to try to take away his lifetime wins is like saying Harding didn't get the 1st ascent of the Nose because he did not free it. Screw that. Keep on rocking Lance!!!
Yeah, Harding was up to his neck in ETOH courage enchancing substances! The FA goes to Robbins who was probably clean
;-)
Can you imagine if they did this in the NFL like they just did with Penn State (Taking away wins)? You'd have retired players who suddenly found out they'd won the super bowl and suing their old bosses for bonuses and rings
Karl
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Aug 25, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
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What if they find out that the Lantern Rouge (sp?) ( he's the guy who's dead-last in the standings ) was doping and therefore disqualified?
Does this mean that the guy who finished second-to-last, and worked his ass off for three weeks to avoid a last place finish, is now given just that?
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Aug 25, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
good one Chaz
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 25, 2012 - 06:14pm PT
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I haven't read all of the above, but I've always suspected the guy. And once I saw the photo op of lance riding bikes with bush I knew he was evil. Ha
No one can ever know for sure but lances response - written by a ghost writer no doubt (very effective piece of writing I might add) - tries to point out that some people willing to testify have themselves been accused (and perhaps offered leniency for their testimony ) but obfuscating the fact that there is practically no one from his team that won't testify against him. Hell, even his girl friend is willing to testify.
Meanwhile, the point of all this is to allow honest and clean riders to compete. Its not possible if dopers are given a pass. I'm not sure if technologically it can ever be stopped - but its worth the effort IMHO.
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