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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Aug 17, 2012 - 08:22pm PT
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These have been some truly interesting reads. And I hate the word interesting, because it's so common. Maybe that's the trouble with the bible for lots of folks.
It's so well-known, so common, and so easy to misinterpret.
The testifying that's gone on here is nice to hear since I have background in the Pentecostal movement in the Catholic religion. I said earlier that peer pressure makes some of our brothers and sisters claim that which they have not received as a gift. They become envious.
If you have a story to tell, don't let it be too strange. You will not be believed. Yet they talk in tongues and I go along with that. As I say, I wonder at much in the world. Tongues is a gift I'd sooner do without, however.
Getting back to what I was saying, some of you folks are deeply convinced and committed to following Jesus. I want you to know that my brother-in-law from my first marriage is a deacon in the Catholic religion, and he is one of the best people I know. He comes across as pushy or sanctimonious to some of our mutual acquaintances, but I feel his heart is purely concerned with others or he would not have accepted orders. I climbed with him and worked with him. He's a dedicated man with a loving wife who is equally dedicated. I am guilty of envy, I guess. I hope I am not too much of a hypocrite, based on what I have said earlier, but I suffer from the common factor among all of us: I'm human, trying to be something more. Ain't gonna work.
Marlow, thanks for Bird on a Wire. That was lovely.
Edit: I cannot truly say I "hate" a word, but I allatime see "interesting" over-used by lazy writers who won't check their thesauri. I was told that to curse or hate inanimate objects (i.e. words) is stupid because it indicates ignorance...
I'd like to add that that Bach family: such insipid music!!!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 17, 2012 - 08:33pm PT
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Another apropros musical interlude, fortunately sans trumpets, bongo drums, and other heathenish racket:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Hey, two billion people hummed along to it last week.
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luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
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Aug 17, 2012 - 08:56pm PT
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Hey Ya'all's....something to think about...I read all about the bad experiences with christian denominations. I will tell ya the church was perfect until man walked in. Sometimes you have to take your beliefs one on one without intervention. The Bible was not written for any one religious denomination yet seems to most it was. That is so wrong. It is a stand alone document. Don't let others try and interpret it for you. I prefer to ask technical questions to scholars who will not shade info towards one denomination but give you the best answer. Research for yourself and do not let others do it for you.
I will leave you with this... compared to all other religions/belief systems...the bible contains more archeological evidence of accuracy then any other that is known...bam
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Aug 17, 2012 - 08:57pm PT
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Aug 17, 2012 - 12:04pm PT
Mormanism places emphasis on the vibrancy, strength, and burliness of JC, eschewing images of Him suffering on the cross, popular in protestant and catholic observances.
The impending debate about what form of Christendom is better/purer than the others, is no different then the battle between the Sunni's and Shiites in Southwest Asia that is killing hundreds by the day.
Complete ego centered insane dogma. Typical humnanness at it's best, regardless what religion it is.
A complete misinterpretation of this sentence. I merely mentioned a religion that putatively encourages physical strength, etc., like muscular christianity. What impending debate?
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 17, 2012 - 09:32pm PT
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here is one my personal favorites, in regards to worship/praise music. recorded at a youth
group service somewhere, they (Sleeping Giant) played at our church a few years back!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 17, 2012 - 09:41pm PT
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A complete misinterpretation of this sentence. I merely mentioned a religion that putatively encourages physical strength, etc., like muscular christianity. What impending debate?
john, i missed that post. i had to look at the time stamp on your quote to learn that it was the chief who responded to you.
i think the chief is posting from a low oxygen environment.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 17, 2012 - 10:05pm PT
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from my favorite hippy gospel album
and one of my favorite protestant versions of the passion
[Click to View YouTube Video]
i believe the images are of lee hazlewood in his lat years rip
lee hazlewood's 1969 version:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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gonzo chemist
climber
Fort Collins, CO
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Aug 18, 2012 - 12:20am PT
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Maybe Steve Vai IS GOD?
one of the greatest guitar ballads ever written...
[youtube=mDZuNM3HmU4&feature=relmfu]
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Aug 18, 2012 - 12:22am PT
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good for you.
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 18, 2012 - 12:39am PT
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Tobia-- "Why Me Lord?"
Awesome KK testimony, thanks!!
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Aug 18, 2012 - 11:53pm PT
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Always enjoyed Elvis. He did a great Xmas album back in the early 60s. Wonderful singing voice.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 19, 2012 - 12:04am PT
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One day i did this hard core christian climbing buddy a favor and drove his son Daniel to christian day school...On the drive down to Bishop , Daniel told me that he loved Satan and hated cops...Now there's a kid after my heart....
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2012 - 02:06am PT
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Cragman, I'm hoping to hear your testimony. This thread was inspired when I saw another giving you a hard time. I did not like that even though I usually like that other person.
The positive posts on this thread are very powerful. Read them.
Ignore the disrespectful stuff. It's a test. Turn the other cheek.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Aug 19, 2012 - 05:59am PT
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Well, this is a pretty lively topic, one which has piqued my INTEREST.
Why Me? Great question, Kris. Totally rhetorical, I have a feeling. But the song's moving and makes me feel a little ashamed. There have been lots of tests, sure, in my life. I have done little to merit reward from a higher power and much to earn censorship from those stern enough to pass judgement. But I have had great gifts, too. Whom to thank? I prefer to thank God. I shouldn't need a Jesus.
That doesn't matter to Jesus, supposedly. He's ready to forgive us on our deathbeds. And the Church is empowered to grant indulgences anyway (more hypocrisy).
Why, then, Jesus? Again, totally rhetorical.
The dog-moms in parochial school taught us with a straight face that suicide and blaspheming the Holy Spirit were the worst sins. Well, that's OK. I believe in God, which is harder to do than not believe in Him. This doesn't mean what I said earlier about being a diagnostic awetheist is crap, because I am a lot of times amazed at what I have seen in the world. I am completely open to the idea of a creator; whether He or She is sticking around to help out when we ask for help is anyone's guess, because even if you never ask, you sometimes get, in spite of it.
I have found that God's generous. Just don't carp too much about crosses to bear. I know I groused a lot about not having my left thumb. I know about trials. It's not necessary to know why. It is necessary to get over things and live your lives. You've heard the last of my thumb, I hope. If nothing else comes of this topic, I am relieved of the burden of worrying about that. God's mysterious and that is what I like. It's almost a game, in fact. And you folks are playing, no matter how you feel about Christianity, Islam, Do-Goodism, or part-time Commies.
And like the dude said in Wayne's World...I love you guys and gals. You treat each other well.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Aug 19, 2012 - 06:56am PT
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Cragman, Glad to see you on this thread.
At the beginning of this thread I referred to another thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1014715&tn=60
so that I wouldn't have to repost my own testimonial. To make it a little easier, My posts are 70, 81, 87, 100.
Cragman at one time had an amazing story to tell on that thread; but it is now deleted, as many posts on that thread were. I wish there was a copy of your posts on that thread. That is another example what Christianity is about
Christianity has not solved my problem of depression; but it has provided hope. I struggle with the "Christian Life"; because life to me is a struggle.
The song; which many people here probably perceive as another one of those messages where believing in Jesus is a "fix all" or a life where you no longer have any troubles and always have a silly grin on your face. Liking the Christian life,IMO, means you embrace God, accept that we are all hopeless sinners and that you see through the premise that what we experience now is not "the living end". There are bigger things than instant gratification.
I sin daily. I sin when I pray; because I pray for death a lot. Seems hypocritical doesn't? Mentioning hope, faith and praying for death is bizarre; I admit it. But as I said I am human; and a very weak or sick one. I know I shouldn't pray for death; I know that is an empty prayer, a selfish prayer; but I also pray for forgiveness. In other words I have faith that in the end it will be ok. It has to do with brain chemistry (I guess). I don't know what it is; but without faith I wouldn't be here to wrote these words.
People perceive Christianity as a crutch, a sign of weakness and dope for the weak. Faith. (not religion or church) is hardly that. You can't measure Christianity by what you see on television, in politics, or by the actions of someone you know and you certainly can't take the historical travesties committed in the name of Christ or "the church" as a definitive measure of what being a Christian means.
Christianity doesn't make you perfect, it doesn't make you better than anyone else. We are all human and humans make mistakes. It is a life work, one where you stumble, backslide and get back up. It provides hope.
The Bible is a manual for life. None greater on this earth. If you follow it or study it; it doesn't make you a believer in fairy tells nor does it debunk science. Any one with any intelligence, can live and believe in both. It isn't a novel. It is a manual.
If there is no God in your life; perhaps one day you will discover there is one, you just haven't accepted the fact. Some won't. Those that associate God and Christ with what they see outside themselves are wearing blinders. Those that don't believe are caught up in themselves, their strengths and gifts (that really aren't theirs). You might hone them; but you didn't create them.
cosmic-cman posted the most important premise of the short version of what Christianity is all about. Thanks.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 19, 2012 - 06:58am PT
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hey there say, all...
i usually just keep on being a mama and a gramma, and share with folks that hurt... (as we all know how hurts need hugs) ... :)
well, i just stopped in tonight, well--this morning, as the case-now-be's, to say this for ol' cosmic, first:
as to your quote:
Looks like I am the first to respond.
I AM a Christian, but I follow no Denomination.
I try to follow the TWO Commandments to the
best of my ability, but don't always succeed at that
because I DO have my FAULTS.
1. Love GOD with all my heart, soul and mind.
2. Love your neighbor as yourself.
I may talk about God, but I don't try to
change another persons, BELIEF.
That, I leave to the Lord.
Cosmic
i remember when you first welcomed me here, cosmic (talked on the phone)... and you were true to form, as to this... very kind... :)
(hugs to donna, this eve) :)
and say, as to jody:
say, jody, as to prayers...
me too--
i never thought it was an insult to say: 'i'm praying for you' meaning this, folks:
to me: if i say i am praying for you, or wishing you well, it simply means this:
(please understand) :)
it means, to me:
i love you enough to say, equally:
"i am sharing my food with you... "
"i am sharing my precious basic needs with you..."
"i am sharing my hopes and dreams of all to be well with you..."
i care enough about you to share whatever is important to me (the prayers), that helps me get through the storms, that i will overflow these to YOU too:
as in--the ol' climbs when troubles come:
hey buddy!!!
i'm sharing my ledge...
i'm sharing my tent... my food, my jacket... i'm sharing my life...
i am sharing my prayers...
i sure hope you will be well and safe, soon...
:)
(but that is me--sure would never mean to be above anyone--just careing to give what i can, the only way i can... what i give to my own loved ones, i now give to you--which is also: my TIME... my time to stop doing whatever else i am doing, and put you, first, as a good buddy would do, as anyone would do for friends...
:)
sure hope that sheds some new light, perhaps... :)
*very interesting stuff going on here, as to all the thoughts and shares... oh my...
well--that's it for me,now, carry on :)...
everyman's life is his own... and we all share what we believe, as it just kind of comes out of us, naturally, like milk from a cow...
well:
like, water, from wells... :)
me:
i am not any 'religion' etc... (a friend once shared the 'so called jesus way' and it was wonderful, so i just stayed on the ol' trail...
i just love god/jesus as my say, due to the help and love that i have felt from this way of praying, through all my years of hopeing my little babies would make it into adulthood... and they did... and they have 'flown the coop' now...
so now, my happiness and such, i keep in god/jesus, as, i am grateful for those years that were treasured and turned out well, though i had many a storm due to my 'now ex' in the midst of it... (whew, so glad i had a nice hand-hold with god, for an anchor, then) :)
well.........
love and god bless to all, this good supertopo eve,
(ooops---morning, i mean) :)
*ps, did not get to read all of these yet, most likely will backtrack, when i can, :)
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 19, 2012 - 08:20am PT
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I love you guys and gals.
Mr. Mouse - We Love You Too, Man!!
:)
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Aug 19, 2012 - 08:32am PT
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Spider wasn't ramming anything down anyone's throat when he started the thread. He asked some simple questions to a specific group
You're right. I'm sorry Spider.
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