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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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My guess, and its a WAG at best, is they found an inexpensive source of some standard duplex stainless available in sheet stock.
And, probably protective of the source? Might account for some of the silence...
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oakm
Ice climber
SLC, UT
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As a matter of curiosity - is stainless steel cheaper or easier to work with than chrome moly? Just askin.
I completely depends on the grade. A lot of the 300 series is pretty comparible in price, and forms well. 17 series is really expensive, not as easy to form. I don't have a lot of personal background in 400 series so I can't really speak to that.
Well, to be fair, somebody should contact BD and ask them to respond here, and then report back of having done so. (Although I find it pretty hard to believe that they don't know about this thread yet.)
I too find it hard to believe that they are not watching this thread pretty closely. I will volunteer to give someone over there a buzz and see what their plan is.
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RDB
Social climber
wa
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To compare any stainless with chromoly for cost or use you have to know the specific steels. Cost and how they "form" will depend on that as will the durability and how the steel is best manufactured into the end product.
"Oakm" here at ST is also obviously "Oaklem" on NEI. He seems a little confused on where he lives, "I live near Albany NY and I go to the dacks almost every weekend ". Have to ask if he moved to SLC just recently as he lists SLC as his residence here on ST.
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oakm
Ice climber
SLC, UT
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To compare any stainless with chromoly for cost or use you have to know the specific steels. Cost and how they "form" will depend on that as will the durability and how the steel is best manufactured into the end product.
I agree 100%
And yes, that is me on NEice. I just moved to SLC a couple months ago. Updating my profile on NEice was pretty low on my pri list when moving across the country, hadn't even thought of it actually.
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JBC
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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Sent an e-mail with a link to this thread to the following addresses:
peter.metcalf@bdel.com
bdmo@bdel.com
warranty@bdel.com
info@liolios.com
info@blackdiamond-inc.com
The last two are from the BDE investor relations website. If nobody at Black Diamond is aware of the thread now they should be Monday morning.
JBC
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erikw
Ice climber
manitou springs,colorado
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Just checked my pons as Im getting ready for a trip to the Canadien Rockies. Sure enough theyre split! I bought them new last spring so they only have one season on them. Pretty pathetic.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Bah! That'll weld up just fine.
Remember "Our crampons rock!"
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RDB
Social climber
wa
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What's your background? Please enlighten me? I'm sick of people claiming to be experts on things with no credentials.
And I'll add credibility to that list.
We have been talking about materials not physics or mechnical or nuclear engineering for the majority of this topic. And while obviously educated most of the responses have been rather dull, dim whitted or misleading (intentional or not) from my perspective on the materials end. More so on the climbers end...which would seem to be simplier yet...that of reliable gear. This conversation just doesn't add up to me. But admittedly I am no engineer or Shurlock Holmes.
Here is a straight up question for you Oakm. Do you work for BD now or have you in the past as a employee, as contract labor or have you ever applied for a job with BD? What I want to know specifically is have you ever had any sort of professional relationship with BD. The answer can be a simple and clear cut, yes or no.
Nothing personal but as I said many of your responses as an engineer have made little or no sense to me. As a climber? No sense at all.
Oh, finally you had asked about editing my posts some time back? I do edit my posts for gramerical errors. I'm dyslexic and have a hard time writing without a spell checker. Some times even with a spell checker. So I often go back and edit for spelling. I never edit for purpose or content short of removing something I've written and find offensive in retrospect or a personal attack I have written in the heat of the moment. I'd delete the post first before I would change the meaning or original content/intent. And I assure you I haven't deleted any posts in this thread.
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Gene
climber
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Although we maintain product liability insurance in amounts that we believe are reasonable, there can be no assurance that we will be able to maintain such insurance on acceptable terms, if at all, in the future or that product liability claims will not exceed the amount of insurance coverage. Additionally, we do not maintain product recall insurance. As a result, product recalls or product liability claims could have a material adverse effect on our business, results of operations and financial condition. Page 7, BD's 2010 Annual Report
(Emphasis by me.)
g
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Spastik
Boulder climber
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I work at a climbing shop and feel obligated to tell people about these crampon failures. In most cases customers will choose a competitors product instead of BD's. All you have to do is google "Black Diamond Failure" and you come across a bunch of sh#t that would turn people away from their product.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Every company takes a crap on occasion. Even Accord's catch fire. Toyota's have also lost their minds from time to time.
The only thing that matters is how a company deals with those issues. Reaction must be swift and address a generous margin of the potential problem when it comes to life and death equipment. I too miss the days when BD engineers/testers would frequent these forums and address issues directly. It really led to a sense of well being when I had to make a choice of brands.
I just found a NIB pair of stainless BD's in the gear room. Guess what's going to be available within a couple days on Ebay?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Bah! That'll weld up just fine.
Remember "Our crampons rock!"
LOL
EDIT:
Where is Weld-it when we need him?
Also, Re; below, glad to see that Bob Culp is finding his voice on the Taco.
Cheers Bob!
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Bob Culp
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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"Eek! My crampon broke!"
"Stop whining. They're supposed to break."
"Really?"
"Of course. If we made them indestructible they would be too heavy to climb with."
"Yeah, but . . . "
"Furthermore, who are you to criticize us, you small person you? We're Bleak Diamond and you are evidently just a member of the lunatic fringe."
"Wait a minute . . . "
"Also if you don't shut up we'll see to it our paid athletes never speak to you again."
"They don't speak to me as it is."
"Suck it up! Grow some! Show a little faith!"
"Ok - I believe. I believe. I believe."
MORE FEELING!
"I BELIEVE, GODDAMIT - now leave me alone."
"Better."
Clearly this thread is making me crazy.
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WBraun
climber
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Hahaha LOL ^^^^^
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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I just laughed out loud! Solid work, Bob!
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RDB
Social climber
wa
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"Also if you don't shut up we'll see to it our paid athletes never speak to you again."
"They don't speak to me as it is."
"Suck it up! Grow some! Show a little faith!"
"Ok - I believe. I believe. I believe."
MORE FEELING!
"I BELIEVE, GODDAMIT - now leave me alone."
"Better."
That is hilarious!
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Perhaps BD could re-tool and make stainless BVDs...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Again to be fair, today is a holiday, but if by this time tomorrow we don't at least get an acknowledgement of getting JBC's emails and a willingness to address these issues as soon as possible, then I hope that the boycott will be joined not only by some of the dismayed posters here, but by the many lurkers as well.
Only this year the Taco was home to a monumental discussion regarding issues fundamental to our community and a mountain of almost mythic proportion.
Perhaps nothing was decided, perhaps something was, but this forum is no sideshow!
Who is Bleak Diamond to look down their noses at us rather than engage in a dialogue with some highly experienced users of their products?
Yeah, it is a bit of a mosh pit, but that would be a pretty lame butt excuse on their part.
Still, I wouldn't hold my breath tomorrow expecting a liar like Metcalf to willingly go on record.
Hey JBC, how about posting what you emailed?
This is the Taco where players get cred by playing their cards face up.
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RDB
Social climber
wa
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For those that have broken crampons and believe the issue is serious this web site and number is very helpful.
We can make a differenece in the climbing community...one broken crampon at a time. Took me less than 5 minutes on the phone with a real person to give a statement and get the process rolling.
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10106.html
CPSC Recall Hotline: (800) 638-2772
If BD doesn't want to respond in public let them answer to the Fed's mandated inquiry.
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