Occupy Wall Street Thread Reposted

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bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

Oct 10, 2011 - 03:55pm PT

Foodstamps, welfare, and Medicaid exist primarily to prevent a violent revolution. They maintain the proles with just enough resources to prevent them from becoming truly desperate. The social safety valve.

Your lock-step to your ideology has taken you so far afield from the practical considerations which it ostensibly advocates, that it has taken you far out on a thin limb over an abyss.
The textbook zealot.

If the time comes when those at the bottom do not have anything to eat, while the upper 1% own the majority of the nation's wealth, then you can be sure that all hell will break loose upon this nation. All bets will be off, every crumb will fight to the death for their survival, and they will take it from any available source. By any means necessary.

You are so wrong. And you feed the class-warfare mantra.

I will always be self-sufficient. It's not rocket science. To be reliant on the gov't for food is 'giving up'.

It's sad. And lame.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

Oct 10, 2011 - 03:57pm PT

OTE, like I said, it's a systemic problem that grew over time.

Point fingers all ya want. Look where yer pointing.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

Oct 10, 2011 - 04:12pm PT

It isn't class warfare, it's called survival.

And yet it is class warfare when a oligarchy monopolizes the resources.

A hungry man is an angry man.

That's ridiculous. I'll reitterate FOOD STAMPS. Nobody is starving, this isn't f*#king Sudan!

Let's be honest here.

The problem with our Capitalist system is all about regulation.

That's it.

Gene

climber

Oct 10, 2011 - 04:18pm PT

I can’t for the life of me figure this one out. Please help.

An investment bank purchases $1 gazillion in mortgages – crappy and otherwise. The bank slices and dices them into various tranches and has the idiot rating agencies sprinkle holy water over them. Fine and dandy. Here’s where I stub my toe. Investment bank sells these sliced, diced and blessed securities to other banks, pension plans, insurance companies, etc. – the so called institutional investors who manage $gazillions in investments. One might think that the buyers are ‘sophisticated’ and are able to do their own due diligence. Apparently not in retrospect. But why are the buyers getting a pass on buying crap? You can’t sell the Brooklyn Bridge unless you have a buyer for it, right? Blame is being put on the sellers, but why on earth did the buyers purchase this stuff? If you try to sell me a used car I’m gonna look under the hood, check the tires and slam the doors. If you’re gona try to sell me several hundred billion dollars in CDOs, wouldn’t I be prudent to drop whatever it takes to figure out what the hell I was buying?

g

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Oct 10, 2011 - 04:23pm PT

Gene,

Your questions go to the heart of the intellectual emptiness of the occupy movement. At this point, I wonder who demonstrates the greater rejection of reality: the occupy demonstrators, or the msm attempting to legitimize the movement.

John

Gene

climber

Oct 10, 2011 - 04:28pm PT

Please explain cuz I am obviously very slow....

Who forced the buyers to buy?

g

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Oct 10, 2011 - 04:33pm PT

Conservative = greedy = self deluded

Gene

climber

Oct 10, 2011 - 04:43pm PT

Gene’s Hypothetical Taxi Service once had a fleet of three cars. Three years ago, I negotiated a five year deal with a local fuel supplier to provide me with 15,000 gallons of gas at a fixed price. My taxi business slowed down when the economy tanked. I figured with the recession that there would be no way I’d use all 15,000 gallons of fuel, but since I had a deal at a fixed price, I found a third party who wanted to buy my interest in the remaining term of the deal. He was crazy happy until he had to lay off half his fleet.

Should I go to jail?

g

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Oct 10, 2011 - 05:06pm PT

JE: At this point, I wonder who demonstrates the greater rejection of reality: the occupy demonstrators, or the msm attempting to legitimize the movement.

Or the teabaggers, whose world view is fixed firmly in the mid 19th century.

Gene

climber

Oct 10, 2011 - 05:34pm PT

Only if you secretly added water to the fuel, had someone certify it as pure fuel, and then bought the fuel back at 1/4 the price once the third party was in financial ruin and had no other choice.

True dat. But if I were to try to sell you, say, $15 billion in gas, do you think you might want to check out what I was selling before you wrote the check?

Lots of bad stuff happened, obviously. But both sides of every transaction have responsibilities. Especially at the magnitue of the deals that have stripped a decade or two from our prosperity. My point is that the greed of the sellers was only matched by that of the buyers in these mega-transactions.

g

EDIT: Check out this old thread: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=185510&tn=0&mr=0 from 5 1/2 years ago. Lots of us saw it coming.

TomCochrane

Trad climber

Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay

Oct 10, 2011 - 05:42pm PT

very interesting discussion and range of opinions; but i think you are all being mislead by the 'wilderness of mirrors' actively created 24/7/365 in the controlled media

now is the time for the 'moment of truth'; when the bull (i.e. the public) figures out the difference between the red cape and the matador

the red cape being manipulated and waved about is money

money is just an idea based upon trust; and the trust is gone now

the matador has one primary objective: depopulation (so he can inherit the earth)

fomenting all available differences of opinion in order to create the chaos of social unrest, riots, revolution, and the like; only serves to provide a suitable environment in which the matador can act on that objective

participating in social unrest; whether for or against any particular faction; just plays into the hands of the matador

go ahead pawing the ground and running around in little circles and pay no attention to the matador and his sword...

Gene

climber

Oct 10, 2011 - 05:55pm PT

Fattrad,

People fear that which influences their lives and over which they have little control or understanding. They are justified to the extent that something out of control that was not even understood by its participants has put our fiscal well being back by a minimum of two decades.

It’s more about being F’d than getting laid.

g

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Oct 10, 2011 - 06:05pm PT

WE are the 99%

http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

"We are the 99 percent. We are getting kicked out of our homes. We are forced to choose between groceries and rent. We are denied quality medical care. We are suffering from environmental pollution. We are working long hours for little pay and no rights, if we're working at all. We are getting nothing while the other 1 percent is getting everything. We are the 99 percent.

Brought to you by the people who occupy wall street."

I will be 30 this month. I have a Master’s degree in education but cannot find a teaching job. I have over $80000 in student loans. For over two years, I have been working at a dental office where they don’t give me dental insurance. My salary was recently cut by 10% - while my boss bought himself two new motorcycles. I am disrespected, overworked, and sexually harassed at work by cannot afford to leave without another job to go to, which I cannot find.
What did I do wrong?

7/30/03 - Mother injured on the job and denied compensation and medical treatment. The beginning of eight years (and ongoing) of financial and legal turmoil.
7/30/11 - Parents file for bankruptcy.
THIS SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.
-Sincerely,
1 of the 99 PercentI am the 99%.

I am the 99%!
I am 14 and I am terrified for my country.
My dad has been laid off and is working a job that requires him to make a commute that takes 1/3 of his pay for gas. My future of getting a job seems to be getting slimmer and slimmer.
I am the 99%
Occupy America!!!

I worked hard (40 hours a week during most of my education), for what? Because hard work and education is supposed to pay off.
Cuts to education on the Federal and State levels = hiring freezes at colleges and universities, despite rising tuition costs for current students.
I will never own a home.
I am one misfortune away from disaster.
My only luxury (one I need for my job) is the internet—what else do I cut back on? Tell me what I need to do to get ahead, because I did EVERYTHING RIGHT! EVERYTHING!
I AM THE 99%!
OCCUPYWALLST.ORG

http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Oct 10, 2011 - 06:28pm PT

What exactly did the above people "do wrong"?

They are simply Americans expressing their frustration while doing nothing wrong, while reading how the richest 1% get more rich.

Free speech from regular people. That's all, nothing to fear.

They don't want to "take" your money from YOU.

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Oct 10, 2011 - 06:45pm PT

I don't personally know of any laws that the Banks broke.

So, no wonder they are not being prosecuted.

Who said the banks broke what laws?

Gene

climber

Oct 10, 2011 - 06:59pm PT

Weschrist,

Very good post. {several above}. I get your point. Here’s where we differ. The scale of the deals that brought us into this morass.

You are right on with taking your used car to the independent shop ( rating agency and having it evaluate your new ride. (Slight difference – the sellers, rather than the buyers paid for the ratings of the CDOs).

But, let’s say for discussion purposes, you were buying the car manufacturing facility for a few hundred million or so, wouldn’t you send in your manufacturing engineers, your audit team, review the ‘as built’ plans of the factory, check rail connections, etc? Do your due diligence? When doing deals of the magnitude of those which crashed the world economy, I hope the buyers of crap didn’t make their purchasing decision through Kelly Blue Book. Apparently they did, and that’s why they are culpable as the sellers. If I had to sign the check with eight or more zeroes, I would want more than a glossy marketing flier.

g

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Oct 10, 2011 - 07:03pm PT

Doesn't a "consumer" have a legal right to assume that the licensed and regulated auto Dealer is doing business in both "good faith" and in strict accordance with law?

There is no "buyer beware" when buying from a dealer.

Buying from a private party is of course a different matter.

Wes had every right to expect both adherence to non tampering law and also "good faith"

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Oct 10, 2011 - 07:15pm PT

How naive, Jeff.

A lot of those derivatives were sold to small towns and counties, even globally, who were relying on the major credit rating agencies such as Moody's and S&P for the legitimacy of the AAA ratings.

These same rating agencies were getting PAID by Wall Street firms FOR those ratings.

Your contention fails because of inadequate logic and linear fact, not Wes's.

Gene

climber

Oct 10, 2011 - 07:19pm PT

The buyers were major institutional investors that had the ability, if not the will, to conduct thorough and proper due diligence.

My point is that without the institutional investment firms that willingly threw down hundreds of billions for crap paper, we’d be in a much better place today. They bought the toxics because they were either idiots, greedy, both, &/or failed to understand what they were buying. It’s not just the sellers’ fault.

g

EDIT:

Your opinions on any topic are worthless

Go buzz yourself, Fattrad. We're having a conversation.