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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Why didn't you folks see the logic in Happies questionarre? Most women who've had abortions Never want to go through it again. I was there through one of them and it wasn't any fun for me and I wasn't even getting worked on.
I've paid for 3 with 3 different partners each of them only having 1 abortion each ( at least that's what they told me), and I have a male friend who's paid for 2.
I think truthfull answers to Happies survey might be revealing to men. Women have to go through a hell of alot more than we do on this one guys and the physical and emotional wounds are slow to heal. All 3 of my abortions marked the end of the relationships. With rare exception( rape, incest, drugs..) A women is not going to put herself in a situation where she would have to under go an abortion the 2nd time.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Fatty- I know you are man, was just teasing you about your glib black market abortion helping the Cali economy comment.
Mark- You are correct that most women do not want to go through that at all and once at most but I really have only one thing to say to you...
3 ABORTIONS ARE YOU TOTALLY INCAPABALE OF USING A FREAKING CONDOM!?!?! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU AT LEAST GET A VASECTOMY!!!!!!!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I have no problem answering Happie's poll. I've been party to two. Once with a woman that did not want to keep it regardless of my desires one way or the other. The other with my wife when we needed to for medical reasons even though we were trying to have another child. For a number of reasons our time ran out and we never did.
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dirtbag
climber
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Anyone else want to take a stab at the hypothetical besides Apocalypsenow, who chose the two year old, Karl, who believes in better living through eugenics, and 426, who deep down probably believes the Smith blastula and toddler should be left to burn?
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426
Sport climber
The Crystal Fist, LRC, TN
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I'm still ridin' the fence, mang. I don't want to 'punislated' over this...
Can we call for backup and save both?
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WBraun
climber
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You asked dirtbag
I'd find a way to kick your ass for standing around doing nothing but talking out your ass while I'm in that burning building risking my life to save your daughter.
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dirtbag
climber
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Uh-uh. There is no time to do that and anyway the phone has burned up.
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Jay
Trad climber
Fort Mill, SC
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And while this thread is only 30 something hours old 4,500 abortions were performed in the US. No matter how you slice it... there's something very wrong going on here. VERY WRONG.
I can't say I've been a good boy all my life but I am proud to say and I do not regret for one iotta having a son when I was a mere 18 years old with my then girlfriend and now wife. My son is now old enough to drive. We both worked like dogs to keep up with bills and get through college and start pressional careers (yes it can be done). If any of you people are thinking that it's too hard to not get an abortion when it just "happens" you're right... but I'm still here and you know what my family's doing pretty good. Sometimes its better to just buck up and be responisble for what you've done and not pass up your oppotunities to endure and overcome. Life is not over when you or your girl gets pregnant. On the contrary life is just beginning.
The problem as I see it is not whether abortion is legal or illegal, the problem is we, as a whole, have an attitude that embraces responsibilty only as far we must pay homage to the all mighty dollar, or vice, or hobbie, or favorite sport, stay outta jail, etc. I suppose that's our attempt at the 'persuit of happyness'. Sound Pathetic? It is. True happyness comes at a price... the higher the price the higher the happyness. Commit to something worthy and possibly unexpected LIKE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING and see what happens. There's no sure bet in it, but it's like life. you get what you put into it. You put in you heart and soul, blood sweat, tears... sooner or later you'll get it back.
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426
Sport climber
The Crystal Fist, LRC, TN
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how about 'grampas paradox'...can that be a clause? If not, I give up, I'll have to go all "Buridan's ass" on you...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jay,
There is merit in your post, but also recognize your experience and circumstances are not shared by everyone faced with the same painful decision. Many, many are clearly borne of bad choices and circumstances that will never end up happily ever after as yours has. And that in no way is meant to take anything away from the sacrifices and hard work you and yours have had to put out to get there. It's just that if you looked at the lives and choices behind every abortion you'd likely not make that recommendation in every case; maybe not even in a majority of them. Clearly parenting, personal responsibility, education, restraint, and contraception all have a role in battling this problem.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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With abortion we brush against some of the greatest mysteries of them all, including creation; the soul; when "life" begins; what is a human and when does this begin; personal versus collective human rights; the ramifications of ending life; or whether it is actually a life we are ending; does life itself have any inalienable rights beyond those of the person; and ultimately, what is life.
I, for one, have specific views about some of these questions, but I don't trust the verity of those views as being anything but almost entirely subjective. The fact that a biologist can give us certain insights doesn't mean the mysteries go away--unless we believe that we are nothing more than our biology. And if I were reduce the entire issue down to rights of my two daughters, I would not be so inane as to think I had arrived there by a pragmatic clarity of mind.
I think the hardest part of this is to make pragmatic choices with complex issues to which little can be known for sure. These are questions that great minds have wrestled with for eons. The questions don't simply go away because we throw down a couple pat answers, or say the questions aren't really all that complex after all, nor yet that by not arriving at end-all answers we are in some wise ducking tough decisions with metaphysical blue wind.
I think at bottom that the most honest answer to many of these questions is: I don't really know. What makes this so charged is that we have to make decisions without knowing anything for certain--save our own beliefs.
JL
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spyork
Trad climber
Fremont, CA
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Just for the record. Two kids, no aborts. They know who their daddy is.
I'm the responsible-to-a-fault geek who you climbing-bum types sneer at.
Chicks don't dig me.
But my boys know I would run into the burning building for them, and thats all I care about.
For the high and mighty ones spouting off about responsibility,
:)-
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