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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Nov 30, 2010 - 01:31am PT
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Skipt......asking congress to police fraudulent behavior by financial institutions is a waste of time. If the financial crisis and its aftermath have proven anything its that the Legislative process has been completely corrupted by those with economic power. Its pretty much right out there in the open nowadays ( not that it was ever very far below the surface)
Hopefully this will shame them into a bit of action, but I wouldn't count on it.
comment above was for Papillon not you...Lois?
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Papillon Rendre
climber
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Nov 30, 2010 - 02:15am PT
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Jeremy:
No where did I say, I advocate fraud.
The few (remaining) large financial institutions acquired very poor acquisitions; Bank of America- Countrywide & Merrill Lynch, Chase; Wamu and WFB; Wachovia which was a strong institution before Goldenwest.
I believe (but not sure) that part of your argument is based on the foreclosure procedures including robo-signers. Yes, very shabby but I also know that each bank faces thousands of foreclosures daily, and the due process was not always performed (in some cases) lawfully.
But rest assured that in 99.9% of the foreclosures, the homeowners had not made a mortgage payment in over 6 months, so the bank was not stealing from the homeonwer. When you do not adhere to the terms of a financial obligation, your collateral is forefeited. This is business.
Now the mess in all of this is who is the rightful owner?
For example, your loan was with Countrywide, but after it collapsed, Bank of America acquired its portfolio, so you started paying your mortgage to them.
The deeds in some cases were never reconveyed to Bank of America or whomever was servicing the loan. When B of A did not receive a mortgage payment from Joe Homeowner after three months, they started foreclosure proceedings. Maybe 6-12+ months later they foreclosed. But the deed was in whose name?
It's a difficult process and the dots were not all connected due to the vast volume of foreclosures.
It is a very challenging time for the financial institutions but they do not want to steal a home from someone who is making their payments in a timely fashion.
I wish for long-term stability in our markets. That is all. Seeing another large financial institution collapse will bring us more harm than good.
-PR
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2010 - 02:20am PT
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Seeing another large financial institution collapse will bring us more harm than good.
It's already collapsed a long time ago.
The money is worthless, and 90% of what you can buy with it is junk.
Greed is good, in the American Dream ......
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 30, 2010 - 02:28am PT
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Majority Report: WikiLeaks, U.S. Reaps What It Sows
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x530025
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbJJQhN983A
Galatians 6:7 (KJV)
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."
I love my Country. I do not love or even like the lying, corruption, the illegal, immoral, and unethical behavior and the cover-ups hidden under the guise of State Secrets, or foreign, or domestic policy.
Sorry. Wrong is wrong. Illegal acts are illegal acts. Truth hurts. Exposure hurts. But it is also meant to get us to clean up our act and stop illegal and immoral behavior.
America needs to wake-up. The rest of the World certainly is.
Those of you condemning what Wikileaks has done along with the help of many News agencies around the World need to really consider what are you upset about. What, you're upset by the fact that illegal acts in our names are being exposed? You're upset that your favorite politician, Republican or Democrat, is caught doing something illegal or immoral? You're upset that you have been lied to? You're upset that you are going to look like a fool for supporting an agenda that is now being exposed as corrupt? What are you really upset about?
Seems like many of you are making excuses to sweep it all back under the rug and wish it never happened or that it was exposed for what it is - corruption. Are you trying to protect those who are corrupt or endeavor in illegal acts?
If you are, then too bad for you.
In Wake of New WikiLeaks Release, JFK, Ellsberg's Remarks on 'Secrecy', 'Covert Ops' Worth Noting
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9646677
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8214
In Wake of WikiLeaks Cable Release, JFK, Ellsberg's Remarks on 'Secrecy', 'Covert Ops' Worth Noting
JFK '61: 'Word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society'
Ellsberg '08: 'Most covert ops deserve to be disclosed by free press'
As the information from WikiLeaks latest release of documents becomes public, and as the U.S. Government continues to scramble to mitigate what the White House is calling today a "reckless and dangerous" leak, condemning it "in the strongest terms" as an alleged threat to national security, it's worth keeping in mind, for valuable perspective, what the 1970s legendary "Pentagon Papers" whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg wrote in an op/ed for The BRAD BLOG in early 2008...
Many, if not most, covert operations deserve to be disclosed by a free press. They are often covert not only because they are illegal but because they are wildly ill-conceived and reckless. "Sensitive" and "covert" are often synonyms for "half-assed," "idiotic," and "dangerous to national security," as well as "criminal."
As well, John F. Kennedy's April 1961 speech on what he described as this nation's abhorrence of secrecy, and the necessity of a free press --- as delivered to the American Newspaper Publishers Association at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York a year or so before his death --- is rather astonishing, and more than a bit ironic, in light of today's leaks and, as directly, the actions of the Executive Branch and its enablers in this country --- in Congress, in the mainstream media and in the public --- over the past dark decade. JFK's remarks include these thoughts among others that must be heard or read...
The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it.
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And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment.
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And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.
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No President should fear public scrutiny of his program. For from that scrutiny comes understanding; and from that understanding comes support or opposition. And both are necessary. |
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Papillon Rendre
climber
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Nov 30, 2010 - 03:14am PT
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But not every Americans' dream.
Our country endured eight years of shame, and now with the wikileaks, we are embarrassed again.
Please explain to me the benefits, for our country, of the wikileaks? I do not understand.
-PR
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 30, 2010 - 09:26am PT
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Do not try to hide criminal acts, unethical and immoral behaviour under the False Flag of Patriotism.
We can Love our Country and Guard Her and do the right thing without breaking the law, acting unethical, immoral, or unjust. We can benefit ourselves as well as the rest of the World by doing so.
We can gain back trust and World opinion if we clean our own house first.
The false cries of "America, love it or leave it," or "You are either with us or against us (or with the terrorists)" are the cries of false patriots who want to do whatever they want to do whether illegal, immoral, unethical, or unjust, and hide behind the US flag while doing so.
These same people are shredding our Constitution and Bill of Rights while doing so.
That is 100% USDA Bull Dung.
Wikileaks is not acting alone. MSM Newspapers around the World are involved. They are redacting names to protect people and the innocent. They are exposing the rotten underbelly. Perhaps they finally grew a back-bone and are starting to do their jobs. Maybe the fourth estate has finally figured out what it is that they are really supposed to do, rather than be in the pocket of the government or corporate America. Maybe they finally figured out that they are supposed to tell the truth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Estate
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 30, 2010 - 10:06am PT
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The clear evidence is that Martin Luther King was murdered by the US Goverment. Yet a small click of gov't officials have managed to induce an opposite belief in otherwise rational people and call those who believe that he was executed by the state conspiricy nuts.
Read Tonys link. Up is down. Black is white. We're being lied too and manipulated on a scale most of us cannot even imagine. It's fascinating and horrifying at the same time.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 30, 2010 - 10:09am PT
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Keep bringing it locker! LOL
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 30, 2010 - 10:25am PT
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Locker, Couchmaster: bless you.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Nov 30, 2010 - 10:53am PT
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if you'd like to know how the game is played, try to see fair game, which might still be in some theaters.
it's okay to "out" our people, fellas. just part of the ping-pong match. in plame's case, the "outing" was done on purpose via scooter libby and a newspaper columnist. this was payback because plame's husband was insisting on the facts instead of going along with the WMD hype running up to the iraq war.
once one soldier comes back in a body bag, it becomes a sacred cause, and no one dare question it. it's the reason these outfits we call democratically elected administrations are in such a hurry to get gunfire. cases like valerie plame's become moot when the nation is united for war.
scooter libby had to take the hit for all this, and he suffered mightily. no, he wasn't hanged, drawn and quartered for treason, just charged with perjury and a couple other no-no's. two of the charges stuck and he got a 30-month sentence which george jr. promptly pardoned. he got a bit of a fine, nothing that couldn't be handled with a private fundraiser, and he can't practice law for awhile which could be a hidden blessing, not only for those who like to fantasize that we still live under a system of laws, but for lib himself, who published one heck of a little novel shortly before being swept into the bush circus and will probably return to his real talent.
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i thought the government killed MLK too, couchmaster. i met a fella named bill pepper, dr. pepper, in fact, a brit with an international law degree. he was king's personal friend during king's life and after king was killed began researching the whole affair. his book: an act of state: the execution of martin luther king.
pepper was so sure of his facts that he initiated a civil suit against some of the people he felt were really involved. and he won, $100, to be exact, towards the defrayment of king's funeral expenses. if you enjoyed the civil suit against o.j. simpson, you'd've loved this one, but it didn't get much coverage, just a little blurb when it was over in the back pages of some newspapers. you might have thought that maybe somebody left a door unlocked and was being sued for negligence or something.
funny how pepper, coretta scott king and king's alleged assassin, james earl ray, all became good buddies. they tried like hell to get a trial for ray, who died conveniently of kidney disease in prison.
recently we have none other than hampton sides, who wrote a great little historical book on the west, blood and thunder. maybe some topo people are familiar with hampton, he's an editor of outside magazine. recently he came upon a nifty little file which disproves everything poor bill pepper and coretta scott king have been trying to say. he wrote a book about it. i'm sure he's doing great with it.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 30, 2010 - 12:23pm PT
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I dunno.
If something is going on that is illegal then yes, it should be outed.
But after reading about some of the leaks, like Dingus I'm really wondering what good will come of all this diplomatic chatter being revealed? I think what it will likely result in is less candid discussion among world leaders about some of our very serious shared problems.
Few if any of us are absolutely candid in our lives, and often for good reason. For example, few of us would say "Yes dear, that dress does make your butt look to big." Likewise, why should we expect better results if our government tried to be absolutely open?
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 30, 2010 - 12:37pm PT
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I don't think I'd have the nerve to Honest Abe in that situation.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Nov 30, 2010 - 12:48pm PT
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Obama is unpopular in what is increasingly looking like a theocracy run by the ultra-orthodox? Those folks consider Jews from other groups not to be true Jews. They don't even want Reform Jews to serve in the military.
Sounds sort of like the Wahhabi arabs that don't consider other Muslims to be true.
What you see in these cables is typical diplomacy in all its shades of grey. There is not much here that should suprise anyone. It's just usually not out in the open.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 30, 2010 - 12:53pm PT
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Tony said it right up there, he and I are on the same page. BTW, I read the Pepper book. Good stuff. Shocking.
None of us know whats really going on here. NO ONE.
BTW, I had a clearance back when I was a pup, ya don't violate your oath. I didn't and wouldn't ever ... well....unless I just forgot. Which in fact almost did happen. I was pulled into a room and reminded of this by 2 burley CID guys. I remembered that I wasn't allowed into the Soviet Union but I'd forgotten in my youthful enthusiasm that I'd signed some papers saying I was not allowed to cross over Yugoslavia into Afghanistan/Pakistan. Or any east block/USSR country for that matter. Thus ended my trip to Nepal in a VW van. I could remember not to say anything to spies when they asked you for info, which happened more than once. That was easy. But we tend to forget the mundane I suppose, and forget our oaths over time. It's why I have such deep respect for Tom Frost, among many reasons. This is beyond forgetting an oath.
Assenge never gave an oath too support the constitution....so there is that I suppose. Then you have to ask, how did he get this info from a US citizen, a US government employee who has a (most likely top secret) clearance, without the intelligence folks learning who did it? These classified data files don't just get up and walk off without knowledge. They don't.
Hmmmmm......Tony has the track and a thought which may be fact. None of the rest of you fools have a clue. Except I bet Fattrad has a feel for it.
and thanks Locker!
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 30, 2010 - 01:19pm PT
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In truth your "reality" is a neocon masturbatory fantasy.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 30, 2010 - 01:27pm PT
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 30, 2010 - 01:32pm PT
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Too much Clancy and 24 for you Sir. Never read a Clancy book and haven't seen 24 since the first season Dingus.
Regards to you and dirtbags girlfriend sir
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Nov 30, 2010 - 02:27pm PT
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careful, couchman, people who take my side get into trouble here. all i know is what i read off the internet anyway, and i don't believe the half of it. but cointelpro makes a certain sense. and this remarkable individual from sweden--does he ever fit the profile.
If something is going on that is illegal then yes, it should be outed.
oh, come on, dirtbag, what's a little matter of law in the global power circus? do you think they could protect your sorry ass from arab terrorists and russky--and now chinese--icbm's if they followed rules?
assuming you're not familiar with the plame case, plame's great crime was being an efficient, faithful and patriotically motivated secret CIA operative, honestly following orders and doing the spook for arguably legitimate american national interests. she didn't have a thing to do with WMDs, but she happens to be married to joe wilson, who also served his country skilfully and honestly for years in the department of state, being full ambassador to some small african countries and also involved in official dealings with saddam hussein before that sumbuck got caught in a spider hole. poor joe was just an honest joe in the wrong place at the wrong time. sonofagun, niger never had no weapons-grade uranium, sorry guys, didn't have it, honest, didn't. shuddup joe. won't shuddup, didn't have it. did too. did not. did too. did not. joe, do you like your wife?
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