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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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I don't think ignorance is the right word to describe Klimmer. He is quite aware. He just chooses fantasy and conjecture. I think he is harmless.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 11:19am PT
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Guys,
I have a moment now since students are still state testing.
Seems you all have a very short memmory.
I suppose you would say the same thing towards these great men of science and faith: Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler, Newton and many, many more.
Not that I'm in that class, only to point out doing science and having faith are compatible.
I've already stated I'm a Theistic Evolutionist. Do we know our history completely without flaw? Do we see crystal clearly regarding our past? Do we know all? Do we know all the connections within Evolution and exactly how it happened? Yes, we have have theories with evidence, but they are incomplete.
We have a hidden past that is being revealed slowly.
Hypotheses gentlemen are educated guesses. We can all speculate. And speculation leads to investigation and the scientific method . . .
Let me know when you know it all. Thanks.
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dirtbag
climber
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Not me.
But if there aren't any documents,which will probably be the case then what? Will it become fodder for a new conspiracy?
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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"brave enough"?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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^^^^ two or more out that far on a limb could be scary!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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You do know that I'm only requesting the latest up to date imagery from the Lunar Recon. Orbiter (LRO) that is now imaging the entire Moon surface at the highest resolution ever. It is so good we can now see the tracks on the Moon's surface from the Apollo missions.
I would not be asking for interpretation, just the images. Just the raw images. No purposeful manipulation, no pixellating, no masking, just the virgin raw images as they come from the LRO for said region.
This program has been paid for with our tax dollars. These images belong to all US citizens. They are the peoples' images. We should have complete access to them.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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From the olde days of Bill Zaumen on the wreck, DMT has spoken out against ganging
up on the odd kid. I truly respect that.
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howlostami
Trad climber
Southern Tier, NY
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The only reason the chinese have a space program is so they can plant an ark on the dark side of the moon :)
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Although a few scientists throughout history have had ideas that seemed crackpot, such as thinking that the earth is round, most crackpots have turned out to be crackpots.
It will suck of Klimmer turns out to be right but statistically, he's a crackpot by believing that there is a giant space ark on the dark side of the moon.
I'm not at all sure how thinking that he is a crackpot about this has anything to do with religion but I guess anyone who shows pictures like those on the cover of the Enquirer and then talks of God is going to be condemned for both.
Also, Galileo was not some unknown guy posting on the internet. When I hear that someone at NASA thinks this is more than a simply Photoshop trick then I might pay more attention. Until then, I'll stick with the traditional view that there is no space ark on the moon and that it's just some silly idea being supported by wackos.
I look forward to being wrong but that doesn't mean I'll just believe any outlandish idea like this. If I believe this, I'll have to believe in Santa Claus, vampires, and a balanced budget, too.
Dave
[edit to add] Attacking Klimmer and not just the idea presented is a bit weak. There are far crazier people teaching our kids. At least Klimmer doesn't seem to hide anything. I hope he doesn't teach this stuff to kids as truth or I'll start siding with the haters.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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It's a dollars and cents issue when an agency like NASA has to burn much needed dollars responding to thousands of quack FOIA requests...
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 05:13pm PT
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Rokjox, thanks.
Come on guys. Do I know if it is a Space Ark of intelligent design?
No I do not.
Do I think that it could be, from the images and story floating around regarding Apollo 20? Yes it could be. There are elements of this story that seem to be true. Bits of real truth seem to be and could be leaking out.
No, I do not talk about this with students. There are many things I do not talk about with anyone. I have stated this many times before.
One of the neat things about the internet, is that you can float strange ideas and opinions without any significant flack. Well, ok, I used to think this. Flack just seems to be coming my way on ST though.
Gee, on this thread too much private info has been released. I have never done to anyone what has been done to me here on this thread. I would never do that kind of Bovine Dung to someone.
I'm asking questions and looking for real answers. I know NASA knows already. I would like to know also. I think many, many people all over the Earth would like to know.
They (NASA Apollo Missions) have taken many images of this object and has been shown in the historical image record. If it was just a ridge, if it was just an anomoly along the side of a crater, then I do not think they would give it any time and we wouldn't see so many official images of the massive object.
We are talking about a structure/object that is about 4500m by 850m or so in size and casts a shadow. Anything natural like a meteor slamming into the Moon at high impact speeds would create a massive crater, and it would vaporize. Check out Dr. Melosh's Impact Crater Calculator on-line and put in the size of this impactor to match the size of this object and you will see the crater would be massive.
A massive rock/asteroid this size does not come to rest on the Moon's surface gently.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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But the Martians love us, and here's proof.
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dirtbag
climber
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Gee, on this thread too much private info has been released. I have never done to anyone what has been done to me here on this thread.
I agree, and I think a lot of people should be ashamed.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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As good a place as any to drop this little research gem:
Brain shuts off in response to healer's prayer
27 April 2010 by Andy Coghlan
WHEN we fall under the spell of a charismatic figure, areas of the brain responsible for scepticism and vigilance become less active. That's the finding of a study which looked at people's response to prayers spoken by someone purportedly possessing divine healing powers.
To identify the brain processes underlying the influence of charismatic individuals, Uffe Schjødt of Aarhus University in Denmark and colleagues turned to Pentecostal Christians, who believe that some people have divinely inspired powers of healing, wisdom and prophecy.
Using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), Schjødt and his colleagues scanned the brains of 20 Pentecostalists and 20 non-believers while playing them recorded prayers. The volunteers were told that six of the prayers were read by a non-Christian, six by an ordinary Christian and six by a healer. In fact, all were read by ordinary Christians.
Only in the devout volunteers did the brain activity monitored by the researchers change in response to the prayers. Parts of the prefrontal and anterior cingulate cortices, which play key roles in vigilance and scepticism when judging the truth and importance of what people say, were deactivated when the subjects listened to a supposed healer. Activity diminished to a lesser extent when the speaker was supposedly a normal Christian (Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience, DOI: 10.1093/scan/nsq023).
Schjødt says that this explains why certain individuals can gain influence over others, and concludes that their ability to do so depends heavily on preconceived notions of their authority and trustworthiness.
It's not clear whether the results extend beyond religious leaders, but Schjødt speculates that brain regions may be deactivated in a similar way in response to doctors, parents and politicians.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20627574.200-brain-shuts-off-in-response-to-healers-prayer.html
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I know NASA knows already.
The problem with your premise starts with thinking like this...
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