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Shiho
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Sep 18, 2014 - 01:29pm PT
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I have a friend who is really depressed. I tell him that I care about him but he doesn't believe that others understand him hence he doesn't trust those who care. I call him but he never returns my calls. If he didn't live 2000 miles away from me, I'd visit him to show that I truly mean it when I say that I care. I've asked him what I could do to help him and he told me that he needed to fight his depression by himself. But really, what should and can I do to help him? Can anybody give me suggestions?
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Sep 18, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
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LIFE .. .,.,,
Summer Time come and gone
This has been such a
Passionate year filled with very high highs and very low lows ....
Reach out sisters and brothers
We are all here for our selves and one another
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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Sep 18, 2014 - 03:17pm PT
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Shiho,
Not sure what you can do, I know for me any time someone says anything nice to me I instantly think they are trying to get something out of me.
Does your friend work? He must have some form of insurance. My wife set up the appointment for me to see a therapist. not sure if theres a way for you to do that, maybe in conjunction with your friends family???
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Sep 18, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
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But really, what should and can I do to help him? Can anybody give me suggestions?
Just let the person know that you don't know what they're feeling or going through, but that you care about them and you are there to provide whatever help you can if and when the person wants it. Tell them it would make you feel good to be helpful to them, but if they just need to deal with it on their own, that's fine and you'll be there when they're ready.
I can't say that's a clinically approved answer, but it feels real and honest to me.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Sep 18, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
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Some things I share with friends and loved ones when they are depressed (and even happy):
text
email
dig up an old photo and email it
dig up an old email and resend it
write an old fashioned USPS letter
write up some crazy story about an adventure
telephone
visit
listen
hug
I like what someone posted about how climbing can burn us out. Sort of like doing too much meth. All those adrenaline peaks might be doing something to us.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Sep 18, 2014 - 06:31pm PT
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hey there say, had not been able to get to all these threads/post, lately, ... it's been 'catch up month' since my daddy died...
say, as to this, posted by john m:
Sep 18, 2014 - 10:49am PT
Skitch.
There are lots of various possibilities. This is just my understand based on my own life experience. I am not a trained professional.
The possibilities involve our thinking patterns, our genetics, and what habits we developed based on our life experiences, plus a few other things.
A professional can help you sort this out.
Sometimes just our life experiences and our thinking patterns can lead to the inability for our body to make the proper balance of hormones for us to be able to feel okay. Other times genetics plays a role.
A very simplified example of how our life experiences and thinking patterns can sabotage us is..
We have some bad experiences. say we lose our job and we have some health problems. Please remember that this is very simplified. We then start thinking things like.. I will never get better. I will never get a new job. Life is too hard. etc.. That then possibly leads us to not taking proper care of ourselves. Maybe we overindulge in recreational drugs such as booze. Or we don't eat properly, or we don't get regular exercise. All of these things can inhibit ones body from creating the proper balance of hormones. Once that happens, then it becomes more and more difficult to feel okay or even good. The inability to feel good even when we are doing something we normally enjoy, then exasperates the whole situation, which then magnifies the downward cycle.
For some people you can toss in genetics. Perhaps they just normally only produce a low level of certain necessary hormones and once they get into the above cycle, it just snowballs.
Either way… what can help to break these kinds of cycles is therapy to identify what thought process are sabotaging oneself, what tools one could use to break these cycles, and when and how to use them. Books can help you understand this, but a really good therapist can help you cut through the bullshit and identify why you specifically have going on.
Toss on top of that the possibility that meds can help you break these kinds of cycles and my best suggestion to you would be to go see someone trained in these kinds of things.
BEARS good, to see it again and read it... very good things in here...
and i've seen just the last few posts, as well... will go back and read...
whatever the reason for depression, i have found:
communication and stimulation to want to do-and-be-alive, is very important...
without these, the will to live, can slowly disinticrate (sorry, spelling) before one even knows it, and it is far to easy for the 'poof' and be gone, to be the next desire, :(
i have a handful of friends, that have gone through this and some, reached solid ground (though they look out for signs, of being susceptible again) and some that still live with it 'NEAR THE DOOR' however...
the huge anchor and improvident for them (as individual, as they are) as been this:
1--being shown that they are really wanted... and just for being them...
2--done by communication, even daily phone calls...
3--cards and letters, stimulation of hope... and assured love/acceptance///
4--therapy, a solid always there for a certain day, feed-back person
that KNOWs HOW THINGS have been fareing in their life...
(sometimes, due to life, the usually support may be busy on a crucial day, but the 'backup' set day, keeps a 'safety hold' before ones eyes...
5--creating a habit to write done feelings, thoughts, or fears, at least it can begin to give a 'picture' of the otherwise 'invisible' factors going on, in the mind or spirit...
6--REAL company, real visits... even a real walk, or out to eat... trouble is though--hours, later, one can have a 'down time' getting to think on the emptiness, once the stimulation is gone--thus, a good AFTERWARDS, phone call, a few hours later, and coaching as to future 'something to do' and keep that promise is a GREAT HELP...
edit: these above numbers, are things that ALL humanfolks need!!
WHEN depression is really bad, or even just starting, folks can feel as if 'on the outside of life' just looking in through the window as something they want, but just can't seem to get or recover... it seems there is no 'opening' to step into that 'realm of life' ...
well, i will go back and see if this advice is for someone HERE now, in need, or for one of them to HELP a friend...
prayers, too... keep praying...
the main prayer?
pray that key folks, will be nearby and onhand, to prevent worse
situations of this depression, or loss of a precious life....
and then, keep praying for open doors to learn why, or what, can
help in the next-step-up, ways, as to keep depression gone, once
someone gets a handle on it...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Sep 18, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
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hey there, say, okay... just went back and saw more here...
say, skitch:
as to this:
My biggest issues, and I'm just guessing that they are depression related since my dad seemed to be the same way before taking meds, are a constant feeling of aggravation, super pessimistic, and I get zero joy out of life.
Ever stand in line and have somebody "accidentally" cut in front of you, does that make a small volcano blow up inside of you??? I feel like their is boiling pot of lava in my chest just waiting for the slightest inconvenience to make it explode, all the time.
I cannot, for the life of me, find any good in anything. All I can do is see the negative aspect of everything. I went bouldering with some people I know last night, all I can think is "how can they be so goddamn happy".
I can't keep friends because it's sooo hard, and fake feeling, to be positive. When I talk all that pours out is negative comments about life, myself, etc.
I have been climbing relatively well compared to my past, but whenever I finish a climb all I can think about is the 1 mistake I made on the climb. If I send it "perfectly" all I can think is I should have tried something harder.
I feel like I am just another of a million evolutionary experiments that went wrong.
Hopefully drugs and therapy work, otherwise my wife is stuck with a piece of sh#t that only wants to drag everyone else that comes into contact with me down to my sick little sh#t-filled pit.
say, the good news, is this--that you SEE the things you do not like, in your self...
the next thing, is this:
we are like a house... built on a foundation...
our life is a basic foundation... however, we are BUILT upon, as we grow... the rest of the house CAN be built wrongly, though we may never see how it happens (it is different for each of us, good or bad, however it goes),
it happens a 'piece at a time' and all add up...
that is WHY it is so hard to pinpoint how to fix stuff and WHY it is so hard to even envision a fix, period... :O
one has to do it in little steps, taking off a piece at the time...
can't just pull the whole foundation, out of course, but, one can do a room at a time--and as we move along, the JOY comes, to see new changes that occur... but we MUST decide to rebuild...
so for instance:
getting upset when one cuts in front of one, in line...
at that moment, you get to rebuild, see it as a great opportunity that is uniquely YOURS...
1--YOU CAN say to yourself--oh my, poor guy was not raised with manners, but my place in line, will STILL get me there, and i can do it with INTEGRITY... i can use these few extra minutes, to think about things to cook, or make, etc, once i get home... etc. etc...
2--when you feel negative, say to yourself: hmm, i WONDER what the positive would be???? then, take one step closer to 'new buidling' and speak about it... it MAY feel fake, but--that is because it is NEW grown, and you are not USED TO IT YET... IT WILL COME IN TIME...
you will one day see the little sprout from the seed, pop up, :)
3--if you feel fake, as to responding, well then, respond as you feel, but then, 'fertilize it' and add,something like: you know, i've felt this way for a long time, but i am open to say this, at least: and add the POSITIVE that is showing through an action in this 'event that is taking place' that you are in the middle of...
it grows, skitch, you will see... one board, at a time, etc...
you will see old rooms, change to new rooms and bit of sunlight and joy will seep in... :)
think of this way, you GET to be a builder, a fantastic builder!
and you will not be a 'prisoner of the old buidling'...
prayers and good wishes for you to re build... :)
you have been a climber, so you know it is hard, but one step at a time...
also, if you do something wrong, do not berate your self, ask yourself why, and what you did... and then rebuild here with this fact:
every single one of us do a wrong move...
we all readjust...
we all fix, by making new habits...
none of us are better than another, due to 'making good moves', we just
have been through the wringer enough to make the new mores more often...
*sure, due to brain patterns, etc, some folks are better at some things, than others, but we all have OUR gifts... you will begin to see what yours are...
each day, do one small thing for your wife, too, and do not expect a response or thank you... just do it, to rebuild, :)
you will once day, lose that feeling that she is 'stuck with your attitude, etc'... :)
share your progress, here, is you want to...
folks WILL cheer you on!!!
and why:
because we have all been through the wringer of life, some just rebuilt sooner, due to someone nearby faster, that helped us, is all...
now, you got folks here... :)
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Sep 18, 2014 - 09:42pm PT
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From experience, i can honestly say that smoking pot regularly can cause depression. So can alcohol, so can smoking cigarets, so can eating chocolate.
Doing ANYTHING with a disproval by one's own conscious is depression. But i can't say that. Because science shows depression is a chemical build-up on the neuron..
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Sep 18, 2014 - 09:57pm PT
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When I have felt down, I have always made a conscious decision to follow my heart's path.
Following one's mind
over one's heart
creates a severe imbalance.
Depression may be a part of this.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 18, 2014 - 11:47pm PT
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But really, what should and can I do to help him? Can anybody give me suggestions?
Regular, but not constant, contact is a good thing.
DONT discuss the depression, unless asked to (Oh, great, here comes another thing to remind me of how bad I feel! (he thinks)).
If you have shared significant things, bring him up to date on people you know in common. Send an old picture that he's in with others (reminds him of how important relationships once were).
But don't do this more than once a week, or longer. Enough time between such that he starts to look forward to the contact. Try to have the contacts be upbeat. Think about his sense of humor, and what he would have found funny, an relate stories of things going on your life that he'd find amusing.
The regular contact says MUCH MORE, than you saying anything about caring. The avoidance of advice and nudges gets away from the rather transparent (to him) effort to manipulate him.
I do not agree with the concept of "being your brother's keeper", but rather "being your brother's brother".
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Shiho
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Sep 19, 2014 - 09:49am PT
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Thanks for all the advice. It truly breaks my heart to see my friend being depressed when I think that he is an amazing person with so much to offer.
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John M
climber
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Oct 12, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
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Thanks for all the advice. It truly breaks my heart to see my friend being depressed when I think that he is an amazing person with so much to offer.
I have a little more advice.
Something that is hard for me as someone who deals with major depression is how people try fix you, or force you to say something like "life is good". I experience a tremendous amount of depressive and suicidal feelings. I fight with it a lot. Yet I can laugh. And some days I can even feel a certain amount of joy. The really hard days are the days when I can do something I normally enjoy, such as skiing or surfing, and yet feel no joy while doing it. Inside I either feel intense pain, or I feel just flat. Those are the tough days. Other days I can get out and I can enjoy it, though during longer bouts of depression, those days can be few and far between. Thats the thing about depression. It can come in cycles. And people don't seem to understand that. They will see me out enjoying myself. When I am having fun I laugh and smile a lot. So people see me this way, or they make an effort to get me to laugh, and then when I do laugh, they say something like. "see, life isn't so bad". Or they say.. " see, life is good". And they want me to acknowledge this.
What that feels like to me is pressure to ignore what I go through most of the time. It feels like the person does not want to accept that I deal with chronic depression and so they try to minimize it. If a person is a paraplegic and they climb half dome, once they get to the top, people don't say things like. Well, I guess you aren't crippled anymore. Yet with depression, if you laugh or have any amount of fun, then you take a lot of heat from society to say that you are "over" your depression.
Yet for me. Depression is more like being a paraplegic. Its something that one can't always just get over. Not that its exactly like being a paraplegic. Occasionally I can walk. But it is more like being a paraplegic then it is like having a sprained ankle. No matter how hard you have sprained your ankle. ( I'm sorry if this is offensive to anyone. My brain isn't functioning that well right now and its the best simile that I could come up with )
So my advice to those who want to be a friend to someone with major depression is that you allow them to laugh and smile, without trying to force the notion that "now they are okay". Instead, on those days when they are able to enjoy something. Enjoy it with them and just acknowledge that joy. You can say something like.. "that was fun." and allow them the space to be able to say. "yes it was". Or if they laugh at a joke. "that was funny".. and they can acknowledge that without then having to defend themselves.
Its one of the hardest parts of major depression. People look at you and think that you are okay, or at least you should be okay. They don't look at someone with cancer and say.. Why aren't you out doing…. yada yada yada.. Someone with cancer doesn't have to defend themselves. But someone with major depression does. I couldn't begin to tell you the number of people who have sneered at me because I'm not financially successful. If I say that I am having a hard time financially, they they say things like, "just go back to college so that you can get a better job". They don't understand that though I am intelligent, just how impossible college can be for someone with major depression.
So one ends up becoming a hermit. Because it gets tiresome having to defend ones self.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 12, 2014 - 01:19pm PT
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John M
Hang in, and hang out, Nature may rejuvenate...
The thread/post, that made me aware of you, would never have led me to foresee this post from you !
FULL MOON + MERCURY RETROGRADE and the passing of life/time as we not being busy being born are surely busy dying. ( Dylan? right?).... Also if I weren't so crazy I would go insane.
(Butchered, Jimmy Buffett sorry Parrot Heads)
The intensity of ones up’s and downs equals the process - work. Bending the wire back and forth
'Working’ the same spot to rupture. An example of this (imHo) this took place on Todd Skinners’ Belay loop with tragic results. The idea that all things are susceptible to work reaches into the metaphysical world as well.
Long ago the need to get away change up every thing was a medically embraced idea
Enter the need for the $$ and big pharma dictating what doctors recommend as well as Huxley’s observations and you can gain some understanding as to the whys and how’s of the depression epidemic
I miss climbing every day… every day that I do not climb ... I regret not climbing
But toes, ankles, knees and fingers start to blow out as time /age marches on.
So rest days, days away from the sustaining life-giving rock becomes a must for me
Apparently not the likes of say…Donini… and others genetics must be at play.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Oct 12, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
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If a person is a paraplegic and they climb half dome, once they get to the top, people don't say things like. "Well, I guess you aren't crippled anymore. "
Unless that person is an incomplete paraplegic, and then they can't see the injury or the challenges it still and forever will cause me.
I get comments all the time, "oh you look fine now! I usually reply "I felt better before I broke my back"...
Depression is exactly that. If people can't see a physical ailment or have experienced it themselves, they don't have the tools to process it. They just don't really understand.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Oct 12, 2014 - 05:35pm PT
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Depression is the black cloud that eclipses your soul. It is the motherf*#ker that tells you you're worthless, that there is no point in getting out of bed, getting dressed, drawing breath. It will eat you alive, and it can do it easily, like a hawk on a mouse. Savage and remorseless, its grip is iron.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 10, 2014 - 05:38am PT
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She says she's lost love for me. Maybe it will come back if i get my sh#t together, but i don't really want to be with someone who doesn't love me unconditionally.....
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Nov 10, 2014 - 06:37am PT
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^^^^^Mike, that makes me heartsick for you. You know how to hang strong through the tuff stuff. You have lots of ears and shoulders to turn to.
You know how to heal, and that it happens, but it's never as fast as we want.
Thinking of you
Susan
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 10, 2014 - 06:40am PT
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Thanks Suse. It means a lot.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Nov 10, 2014 - 06:44am PT
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@Mike: <<hug>> :(
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