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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 13, 2011 - 12:45pm PT
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Indefensibly bizarre and absurd.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 13, 2011 - 12:57pm PT
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"If there was irrefutable evidence available, would you change your mind?"
That is what the Christians said about the Heretics: Inquisition
It's actually what an atheist would say to a Christian fanatic.
That is what the Christians said about Witches: Witch Hunt
It's actually what a Wiccan might say to a Christian fanatic.
That is what the Plantationist said about Blacks: American Black Slavery
It's actually what an abolitionist would say to a Plantationist or other racist fanatic.
That is what the Male American said about Women: Women could not Vote
It's actually what a suffragette would say to a sexist chauvinistic fanatic.
That is what Hitler said about the Jews, Russians etc: The Holocaust
It's actually what a Jew would say to a racist fanatic.
That is what McCarthy said about the American Communists: McCarthyism
It's actually what a citizen might say to a demagoguing political fanatic.
That is what the Muslim Extremist say about us: Modern Day Jihad
It's actually what a moderate muslim might say to a muslim fanatic.
And it's actually what Bruce is saying to a selfish, myopic, obtuse fanatic.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 13, 2011 - 01:04pm PT
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Uh Oh! Now he's mixing in the anti-elitism with the head-exploding Chewbacca Defense.
Edit: Fine, I might change it to "did irrefutably say" since that fits better with your mindset.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 13, 2011 - 01:08pm PT
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Here we go with personal attacks. Gotta love it.
You fanatics...
Got to give you elitist AGW fantatics credit.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 13, 2011 - 01:15pm PT
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Where do you come up with this sh#t. Did the navy send you to some kind of psyops training with Johnnie Cochran. I think my head is going to explode if I read any more of your nonsensical ravings.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
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That is what the Christians said about the Heretics: Inquisition
That is what the Christians said about Witches: Witch Hunt
That is what the Plantationist said about Blacks: American Black Slavery
That is what the Male American said about Women: Women could not Vote
That is what Hitler said about the Jews/Russians etc: The Holocaust
That is what McCarthy said about the American Communists: McCarthyism
That is what the Muslim Extremist say about us: Modern Day Jihad
Absolutely NO difference from any of the above. NONE!
 The Chief
I'd like to say that's interesting, but in reality it's simply BS.
Chief, if you can show that any one of your asinine similes is backed up by scientific research (like AGW), I'll send you a new Red Camalot. Assuming you know how to use that, it'd be worth your time to show how your claims are worthwhile.
Otherwise, step away from your computer and go into your bathroom when you blow foul, hot air.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 13, 2011 - 02:15pm PT
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 13, 2011 - 02:16pm PT
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The weird thing is you would think any climber with any appreciation of leave no trace ethics, conservation, or resource protection would say something like:
"You guys are all fooled by this global warming scam, the science is complex and subject to interpretation, and we don't know for sure what will happen, BUT conservation is a good idea regardless of if global warming is happening or not so any watered down legislation that could possibly get passed would probably help our environment and future economy anyway."
the agw movement has become a religion LOL, the projection of these statements is so obvious.
If it was a religion wouldn't the "fanatics" be saying don't drive AT ALL, don't heat your house AT ALL, don't even cook you food!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 13, 2011 - 02:21pm PT
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Define: AGW idealism
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 13, 2011 - 02:33pm PT
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Chief knows everything--just ask him.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2011 - 02:52pm PT
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Come on Chief, I'm offering you a new Red Camalot if you can back up your Bull Crap.
But not to worry, we all know, you are full of it, so don't worry about losing face.
Q: What do you call an internet blow-hard who has 1/2 a brain?
A: Gifted.
Well Chief, looks like you have a ways to go to be considered gifted...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 13, 2011 - 08:44pm PT
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It aint working. Seen the latest polls. AGW's popularity is dropping like the temprature. Within five years, it will be a thing of the past. Just like Ken and Barbi.
Just like the imminent ice age was 20 years ago
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 13, 2011 - 11:04pm PT
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Riddle me this;
How come CO2 has according to the geologic record been a lagging indicator of temperature,
until humans produced the CO2?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 13, 2011 - 11:14pm PT
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CO2 absorption bands are very narrow and deep.
Can you absorb more than 100% of something?
How does that happen?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 13, 2011 - 11:27pm PT
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The pacific decadal oscillation peaked in 08
It's in a steep downward trend.
Wonder what next years winter will look like?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 14, 2011 - 12:08am PT
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The total amount of energy absorbed and re-radiated is expressed by the area of the curve defined by the absorption bands. If there's 100% absorption by the atmosphere by concentrations of something like 150 ppb,in the span of a few meters, something that is experimentally provable, (may be off on the exact number, but there's 100% absorption at significantly less than present atmospheric concentrations)
How does adding any more CO2 absorb significantly more energy when the shoulders of the curve are normal and the cutoff that sharp?
Any higher atmospheric concentrations past a certain point, (already reached long ago?) can only make plants grow faster and has no effect on temperature.
Back to the lagging indicator.
The sun emits a variable amount of radiation. A pair of narrow bandwidths are 100% absorbed by CO2 at geologically normal atmospheric concentrations and re-emitted in lower wavelengths.
that CO2 absorption is completed by amounts of CO2 present in the pre- industrial atmosphere.
The geological records snows CO2 concentrations lagging temperature which makes sense as higher temperatures produce more biology that produces higher CO2 levels either directly or by decay.
Time to start looking at the input.
The Sun.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 14, 2011 - 09:02am PT
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Chief doesn't listen.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 14, 2011 - 01:47pm PT
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nothing to add, but this is a damn interesting thread
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 14, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
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Thanks for the cite, Bruce. I suspect that the real reason people want to win arguments isn't because they want to deceive anyone (except maybe themselves). It's because we learn by adapting prior beliefs to new observations. We don't process the new information in a vacuum. Rather, we apply our biased view of the world to what we observe.
This is one of the foundations of Bayesian statistical inference, and it has a great deal of application in areas where we need to make statistical inferences from non-experimental data.
If we really wanted to take the Bayesian prospective into account, we'd acknowledge that the confidence intervals of our regressors are much broader than classical statistical theory suggests. This accounts for why future predictions of economic models (and possibly climate change ones as well) don't fit the observed future data nearly as well as they fit the observed data during the modeling period.
John
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Jun 14, 2011 - 03:37pm PT
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A group of dissembling scientists have lied for slimy politicians over a wide range of issues:
"Merchants of Doubt": A Review
Monday 13 June 2011
by: Christine Shearer, Left Eye On Books | Book Review
Merchants of Doubt is a very well-researched book about a small group of scientists and scientific advisers to the U.S. government who transitioned from their role as Cold War warriors supporting nuclear weapons to ideologically-motivated “contrarians” battling anything they saw as a threat to liberty and free enterprise, even if that meant the science on acid rain or the hole in the ozone layer.
While many books have looked at the misinformation campaigns around issues such as tobacco and climate change, Oreskes and Conway take it one step further, locating some of the key players in multiple issues and situating them as products of a particular history: defenders of the American way of life against its perceived enemies, whether it be communists and socialists or environmentalists and science.
The authors are well-suited for the task as both are historians of science – Oreskes at UC San Diego and Conway at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory. They bring together considerable evidence to support the argument that a very small group of people have been particularly influential in shaping U.S. public opinion and policy on a number of very important issues.
Oreskes and Conway particularly focus on physicists Fred Seitz, Fred Singer, and William Nierenberg, as well as a few other contrarian scientists, many of them connected to the politically conservative think tank, the Marshall Institute. The book starts off by describing the efforts of some of these scientists in support of nuclear weapons and, eventually, the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) proposed by U.S. President Ronald Reagan in 1983, to strike down nuclear ballistic missiles in the air.....The book then looks at how this small group of scientists went on to battle the scientific consensus on a number of issues, including the effects of acid rain, the hole in the ozone layer, the dangers of cigarette smoke, and the existence of anthropogenic climate change.
Here's the whole review: http://www.truth-out.org/merchants-doubt-review/1307993393
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