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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 11, 2011 - 01:38pm PT
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Its like second guessing your brain surgeon, or for a somewhat less "elite" analogy, trying to tell your mechanic how to fix your car.
That is an interesting observation. When someone who knows nothing about cars goes to a mechanic, he's in mortal fear that the mechanic is trying to cheat him. And the mechanic oftentimes is. I doubt the brain surgeon is trying to cheat you in the same way (he's making plenty of money no matter what), but many doctors screw things up, and the wise patient does as much diligence as he can, including second opinions, asking tough questions, etc.
We need to have the same skepticism when dealing with "scientists" whose personal agenda (getting grants/publicity/junkets/nice livelihood) may be divorced from any notion of the public good.
One good thing about The Chief--he seems to have united virtually everyone who's reading this thread in agreeing that he is whacked at many different levels (nothing personal Chief--you may be a great guy IRL, but the stuff you post here is beyond left field).
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Jun 13, 2011 - 05:54am PT
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"I strongly suspect, based somewhat on my experiences with people of the scientific bent, that they are the least likely people to be driven by a need for profit and power. I won't say it can't happen but as a group they are the most likely to be motivated by the drive to know "the truth", in fact that pretty much defines thier field of profession. The whole notion that the whole climate science community is embarked on some highly organized international scheme to hoodwink us all out of our tax dollars via targeting research grants is hilarious beyond belief.
If you really insist upon the existence of a "conspiracy" shouldn't one follow the real money in the
obvious direction?"
if you need proof that the agw movement has become a religion, here it is... the leaders of the movement are now incorruptible, selfless, and motivated simply by the "truth"
never mind the calls for "skeptics" to be fired and stripped of accreditation
never mind repeated and ongoing refusals to publish data
never mind the very real conspiracy to manipulate the peer review process to keep opposing studies from publication
never mind the continuing claims of "consensus" despite the many "skeptics"
never mind the refusal of the leaders to openly debate the skeptics
never mind the billions of dollars devoted to research, which doesn't include the cost of international travel to attend conferences at luxury resorts
here's a question: if increased co2 emissions lead to increased temps, then why haven't global temps increased over the last 10 years?
http://blogs.forbes.com/jamestaylor/2011/06/08/ten-years-and-counting-wheres-the-global-warming/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/may/29/record-greenhouse-gases-jolt-bonn-climate-talks
http://www.drroyspencer.com/
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/06/recent-cooling-of-northern-hemisphere-mid-latitudes-viewed-from-aqua/
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/06/uah-temperature-update-for-may-2011-0-13-deg-c/
http://www.drroyspencer.com/
http://www.firstthings.com/article/2011/05/the-truth-about-greenhouse-gases
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/04/07/climate-models-go-cold/
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 13, 2011 - 06:53am PT
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So you bought the Razzle-Dazzle?
Despite being in the depths of an extreme solar minimum, 2010 was the second hottest year on record.
http://science1.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/01apr_deepsolarminimum/
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20110112/
What kind of fool is so biased that he trusts OPINIONS that agree with his biases, over scientific DATA that is counter to them? What kind of chump could be so biased that he paints those who are concerned about climate change--because of the scientific evidence--as being cultish religious nuts, when it is he who is blinded by his own opinion articles of faith and miracles of cherry-picked data manipulation? Bookworm is that you? Chief?
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 13, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
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The Chief
Trad climber
from the Land where Free Mongols still roam! Jun 13, 2011 - 09:22am PT
"If there was irrefutable evidence available, would you change your mind?"
LMAO! Haven't we heard this far too many times in the past 1000 years alone....
That is what the Christians said about the Heretics: Inquisition
That is what the Christians said about Witches: Witch Hunt
That is what the Plantationist said about Blacks: American Black Slavery
That is what the Male American said about Women: Women could not Vote
That is what Hitler said about the Jews/Russians etc: The Holocaust
That is what McCarthy said about the American Communists: McCarthyism
That is what the Muslim Extremist say about us: Modern Day Jihad
ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ...............
Absolutely NO difference from any of the above. NONE!
Just another form of Ego Fanaticism.
Uh Oh! The Chief is using the Chewbacca defense again.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 13, 2011 - 12:45pm PT
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Indefensibly bizarre and absurd.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 13, 2011 - 12:57pm PT
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"If there was irrefutable evidence available, would you change your mind?"
That is what the Christians said about the Heretics: Inquisition
It's actually what an atheist would say to a Christian fanatic.
That is what the Christians said about Witches: Witch Hunt
It's actually what a Wiccan might say to a Christian fanatic.
That is what the Plantationist said about Blacks: American Black Slavery
It's actually what an abolitionist would say to a Plantationist or other racist fanatic.
That is what the Male American said about Women: Women could not Vote
It's actually what a suffragette would say to a sexist chauvinistic fanatic.
That is what Hitler said about the Jews, Russians etc: The Holocaust
It's actually what a Jew would say to a racist fanatic.
That is what McCarthy said about the American Communists: McCarthyism
It's actually what a citizen might say to a demagoguing political fanatic.
That is what the Muslim Extremist say about us: Modern Day Jihad
It's actually what a moderate muslim might say to a muslim fanatic.
And it's actually what Bruce is saying to a selfish, myopic, obtuse fanatic.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 13, 2011 - 01:04pm PT
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Uh Oh! Now he's mixing in the anti-elitism with the head-exploding Chewbacca Defense.
Edit: Fine, I might change it to "did irrefutably say" since that fits better with your mindset.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 13, 2011 - 01:08pm PT
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Here we go with personal attacks. Gotta love it.
You fanatics...
Got to give you elitist AGW fantatics credit.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 13, 2011 - 01:15pm PT
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Where do you come up with this sh#t. Did the navy send you to some kind of psyops training with Johnnie Cochran. I think my head is going to explode if I read any more of your nonsensical ravings.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
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That is what the Christians said about the Heretics: Inquisition
That is what the Christians said about Witches: Witch Hunt
That is what the Plantationist said about Blacks: American Black Slavery
That is what the Male American said about Women: Women could not Vote
That is what Hitler said about the Jews/Russians etc: The Holocaust
That is what McCarthy said about the American Communists: McCarthyism
That is what the Muslim Extremist say about us: Modern Day Jihad
Absolutely NO difference from any of the above. NONE!
 The Chief
I'd like to say that's interesting, but in reality it's simply BS.
Chief, if you can show that any one of your asinine similes is backed up by scientific research (like AGW), I'll send you a new Red Camalot. Assuming you know how to use that, it'd be worth your time to show how your claims are worthwhile.
Otherwise, step away from your computer and go into your bathroom when you blow foul, hot air.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 13, 2011 - 02:15pm PT
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 13, 2011 - 02:16pm PT
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The weird thing is you would think any climber with any appreciation of leave no trace ethics, conservation, or resource protection would say something like:
"You guys are all fooled by this global warming scam, the science is complex and subject to interpretation, and we don't know for sure what will happen, BUT conservation is a good idea regardless of if global warming is happening or not so any watered down legislation that could possibly get passed would probably help our environment and future economy anyway."
the agw movement has become a religion LOL, the projection of these statements is so obvious.
If it was a religion wouldn't the "fanatics" be saying don't drive AT ALL, don't heat your house AT ALL, don't even cook you food!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 13, 2011 - 02:21pm PT
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Define: AGW idealism
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 13, 2011 - 02:33pm PT
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Chief knows everything--just ask him.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2011 - 02:52pm PT
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Come on Chief, I'm offering you a new Red Camalot if you can back up your Bull Crap.
But not to worry, we all know, you are full of it, so don't worry about losing face.
Q: What do you call an internet blow-hard who has 1/2 a brain?
A: Gifted.
Well Chief, looks like you have a ways to go to be considered gifted...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 13, 2011 - 08:44pm PT
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It aint working. Seen the latest polls. AGW's popularity is dropping like the temprature. Within five years, it will be a thing of the past. Just like Ken and Barbi.
Just like the imminent ice age was 20 years ago
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 13, 2011 - 11:04pm PT
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Riddle me this;
How come CO2 has according to the geologic record been a lagging indicator of temperature,
until humans produced the CO2?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 13, 2011 - 11:14pm PT
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CO2 absorption bands are very narrow and deep.
Can you absorb more than 100% of something?
How does that happen?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 13, 2011 - 11:27pm PT
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The pacific decadal oscillation peaked in 08
It's in a steep downward trend.
Wonder what next years winter will look like?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 14, 2011 - 12:08am PT
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The total amount of energy absorbed and re-radiated is expressed by the area of the curve defined by the absorption bands. If there's 100% absorption by the atmosphere by concentrations of something like 150 ppb,in the span of a few meters, something that is experimentally provable, (may be off on the exact number, but there's 100% absorption at significantly less than present atmospheric concentrations)
How does adding any more CO2 absorb significantly more energy when the shoulders of the curve are normal and the cutoff that sharp?
Any higher atmospheric concentrations past a certain point, (already reached long ago?) can only make plants grow faster and has no effect on temperature.
Back to the lagging indicator.
The sun emits a variable amount of radiation. A pair of narrow bandwidths are 100% absorbed by CO2 at geologically normal atmospheric concentrations and re-emitted in lower wavelengths.
that CO2 absorption is completed by amounts of CO2 present in the pre- industrial atmosphere.
The geological records snows CO2 concentrations lagging temperature which makes sense as higher temperatures produce more biology that produces higher CO2 levels either directly or by decay.
Time to start looking at the input.
The Sun.
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