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dirtbag
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2015 - 07:37am PT
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This situation is not a good thing. When the military is revered and the politicians reviled, war cannot be too far over the horizon.
Great insight!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Mar 12, 2015 - 07:55am PT
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Americans like action. We like to see problems solved quickly and effectively. It is not surprising that we respect our military. The military has a simple job. Take orders and accomplish the mission. They are given vast resources and manpower in order to do their job and they are not a committee. They have not always won but then again they have sometimes been asked to do the impossible.
I worry a little bit about our nation for a different reason.
Democracies can fall if they fail to do their job. I don't see America as magically immune to this possibility. If we fail to pay our debts for example I suspect some pretty terrible consequences could occur. There are some incredibly stupid people running (not running) things in congress right now.
That is what is not good.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Mar 12, 2015 - 08:00am PT
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This country no longer has the will or the political capital to commit ground troops.
...needlessly.
That's a good thing.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 12, 2015 - 08:44am PT
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trollworm, you really are a worthless contribution to this thread.
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dirtbag
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2015 - 08:51am PT
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He's reverted to his cowardly practice of cut, paste and hide.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 12, 2015 - 09:04am PT
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More lunatic brainwashed fools repeating the American empires psy-ops fake war against the ISIS.
The whole show ISIS is supported (including all those humvees and Toyota's stingers missiles etc etc.) all run by the USA.
You loons have been 0wned a hundred times over and still stupid enough to keep spewing your loon brainwashed garbage here.
No wonder it just keeps going.
Nuke this stooopid loon thread as you're still as stupid as you were when you all fell for the previous Bush's administrations psy-ops brainwashing.
You'll never get it.
Yer all too dumbed down stupid sheeple Americans ......
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Flip Flop
climber
salad bowl, california
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Mar 12, 2015 - 09:14am PT
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" I started a war. I started a lot of wars. It's what I do."
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Mar 12, 2015 - 09:20am PT
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I can take some criticism, but when someone calls me "sheeple" it really stings.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Mar 12, 2015 - 09:21am PT
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Actually the article Bookworm linked is worth pondering.
Here's another site with the article without a subscription:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/saudi-nuclear-deal-raises-stakes-for-iran-talks-2015-03-11-21103596
Contemplating the full and possible unintended consequences of the current deal with Iran is worth pondering.
Are we going too soft on Iran with this deal?
What are the pros and cons of this deal with Iran?
Do the points agreed to have an end date and why?
What about ICBM's that Iran is developing?
I'm not a policy wonk, but I do seek the truth.
Mostly it doesn't come from a strictly partisan view.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 12, 2015 - 09:33am PT
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The US has been criminally complicit against Iran for years thru the lies presented by the forked tongued snake Netanyahu and his criminal bought AIPAC US congress and CIA loons.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Mar 12, 2015 - 10:38am PT
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Obviously, the people who took down the twin towers, shot JFK, invented AIDS and faked the moon landing are behind this. They operate out of the basement of the Denver Airport.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 12, 2015 - 12:12pm PT
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Crankster, now I'm sorry I can't find my History of the 20th Century, as told by The Onion. Their headline from the JFK assassination reads something like "Kennedy Slain By CIA, Mafia, Castro, LBJ, Teamsters, Freemasons. . ."
John
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Mar 12, 2015 - 12:31pm PT
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DMT wrote:
This situation is not a good thing. When the military is revered and the politicians reviled, war cannot be too far over the horizon.
Good point.
One reason the military is revered would be their higher standards of character and personal integrity. The public also understands the personal sacrifices made by military personnel. If politicians were held to the same standard, Congress would have few left to legislate.
For just one example, what would anyone say is the greatest personal sacrifice our president has made in his life?
Hard to come up with something, eh?
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Mar 12, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
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**For just one example, what would anyone say is the greatest personal sacrifice our president has made in his life?
Hard to come up with something, eh?**
Just the current POTUS or each?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 12, 2015 - 12:48pm PT
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Nope, just this one.
The black muslim one from the other Party.
That one.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Mar 12, 2015 - 12:51pm PT
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I get it. But does his family lie in bed with the Bin Laden's? <- now that's a sacrifice!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 12, 2015 - 01:08pm PT
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On the foreign policy issue, I think Larry has articulated my position quite well. "avoiding nuclear war," while a necessary condition to any rational foreign policy, seems an insufficient one to me.
I gave the example of Ukraine vs. Russia precisely because it's difficult. If the only principle guiding our foreign policy is "avoiding nuclear war," does that mean that we acquiesce to anything a nuclear power wishes to do to a non-nuclear power? How do we differentiate between actions that produce "peace in our time" from those that truly produce peace? I don't think a foreign policy of ad hoc action or inaction produces much good. All it produces is unpredictability at best, and impotence at worst.
I also sense in this administration, and in the left generally, a lack of faith in any particular principle of what we used to call western civilization. Would today's administration make the Emperor of Japan renounce his divinity, and require a conquered Japan to adopt western-style democracy? I rather suspect it would not. Instead, they'd adopt a chauvinism saying that "they're just different. We can't impose on them what we want, because who are we to say we're right?"
On a slightly different topic, DMT, I think we generally hold the military in higher regard than other institutions because we perceive that they aren't in it for the money. We also appreciate a culture that holds individuals responsible for outcomes, even if this sometimes produces unfair results (for example, the blots on the reputations of Admiral Kimmel and General Short).
In contrast, most of the public, regardless of political affiliation, thinks that politicians act to aggrandize themselves, and act to dodge any sort of responsibility for the outcomes of their actions. I'm sorry the courts seem to be tarred with the same brush as elected officials, but I know that whenever parties go to court, at least one of them will be unhappy with the outcome.
This is a long way of saying that the respect we hold for the military does not mean that war is more likely. If anything, we respect the military because, almost to a person, those who serve or have served hate war, and won't provoke one unnecessarily. We can't say the same for our politicians.
John
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Mar 12, 2015 - 01:13pm PT
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John posted I gave the example of Ukraine vs. Russia precisely because it's difficult. If the only principle guiding our foreign policy is "avoiding nuclear war," does that mean that we acquiesce to anything a nuclear power wishes to do to a non-nuclear power? How do we differentiate between actions that produce "peace in our time" from those that truly produce peace? I don't think a foreign policy of ad hoc action or inaction produces much good. All it produces is unpredictability at best, and impotence at worst.
Let me see if I can remember Bush's foreign policy on Russia: Putin is an amazing human being. We are alike. Oh hey, please stop shelling Chechnya. Hey, wait no you can't annex Georgia. Please. Stop.
John posted I also sense in this administration, and in the left generally, a lack of faith in any particular principle of what we used to call western civilization. Would today's administration make the Emperor of Japan renounce his divinity, and require a conquered Japan to adopt western-style democracy? I rather suspect it would not. Instead, they'd adopt a chauvinism saying that "they're just different. We can't impose on them what we want, because who are we to say we're right?"
Wow. Look at this old white guy lament the loss of an oppressive age of a world that is literally leaving him behind.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 12, 2015 - 01:14pm PT
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"If the only principle guiding our foreign policy is "avoiding nuclear war," does that mean that we acquiesce to anything a nuclear power wishes to do to a non-nuclear power?"
Of course not...but that response doesn't have to mean boots on the ground, or nukes in the air, like the RepubliHawks would like to see.
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