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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:10pm PT
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..........................
That is what the fight is about here in Nevada,..............
In reality it's about a bunch of grown up children who don't get things the way they want them.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:30pm PT
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:30pm PT
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Ron you can believe what ever you want but you can't recreate truth to fit your delusion.
Point in case; Edward Snowden did NOT sell any US secrets to foreign governments. Nor did he give foreign governments any US secrets. In fact he made NO money at all as he GAVE the info to AMERICAN news agencies
But you will turn a blind eye to any truth that assails your narrative and like the Chief will keep posting misrepresentations and rightwing lies as if repetition will make them truthier..
Irony is how opposed the rightwing are to what they in frothing ranting droves voted for in the first place.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:43pm PT
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When you see trash like Bundy don't you want to grab his turkey neck and just.......SQUEEZE!
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:54pm PT
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No Rong as usual you are Wrong.
Where do you get off assuming you know my stance on NDAA?
Or that I am a blind party hack of the Democrats?
Will you ever acknowledge ever being wRONg?
ANd like I asked earlier, Chief are you on the payroll or just into sucking Koch sauce?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:58pm PT
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The intent of the now cancelled solar farm was to replace electrical production of an aging coal burning plant in Nevada. The plant in question is considered the dirtiest coal plant in America. The Solar plant would have been a big improvement to the environment.
And gee guess who's financial interests are benefited by keeping the coal plant running?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
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There are a lot of well groomed, pleasant Americans but far fewer thoughtful ones.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:09pm PT
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What disgusting verbiage Ron?
You mean like "shet" and "feck".
Would you prefer poo poo and scudilypootin?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:12pm PT
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Crag
That's like the kid who takes a crap in the sandbox because he saw the cat do it.....so it must be ok. Will you sell me some of your incisive brevity? I'll be laughing about that all day.
Ron
so you were a decent, up front, let's talk about this infraction and I won't bust you LEO. Good for you. seriously.
Has no relevance at all to a guy who's had his multiple days in court, has ignored a judgement for 20 years and now is whining about his Big Bad Gov't trying to collect its legal debts. Is thumbing his nose at due process.
And by the way, the Big Bad Feds have not hauled him off in chains. Although I think they should have.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:17pm PT
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Hmmm so Rong got scolded by the head master and is now suspicious of everyone for being a dirty rat fink. No taking personal responsibility for the content of his words.
So if us stoopid LibTards are so potty mouthed why haven't we been admonished by the powers that be?
Truth has a phunny Liberal bias.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:19pm PT
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From Ron:
edit: and to whomever replied about the arming of IRS agents,, since when do they need fire arms to levy bank accounts.. They used NONE when they levied mine, they simply did it over the internet and my account. And in over 20 years they COULDNT do the same with Bundy?? Anyone believing that should look at my beachfront in Omaha for sale..
I don't agree with Ron on many things, and I don't support Bundy whatsover.
But I've yet to see even a plausible guess addressing Ron's point that the government can levy bank accounts to satisfy judgments.
Why didn't it do that here, rather than launching a crazy, expensive, dangerous paramilitary style operation? (Elcap noted that the only way to actually get the cows off that land is with direct force. I responded that that's true, but if you cripple Bundy's business with standard government debt collection tactics, those cows aren't going to be anywhere for long.)
Maybe there's a good reason, but I haven't heard even a guess as to what it may be. (If it's something like Bundy runs an all-cash business and has no bank accounts or other non-bovine assets, maybe, but that seems far-fetched.)
My guess: crazy, expensive, dangerous paramilitary style operations are probably kind of fun. Remember that government agents aren't spending their own money on any of this nonsense. And unlike climbers who have to spend their own money to engage in our silly adventures, the feds (and their contractors) actually get paid for that stuff! Helicopter round-up time--yeehah!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:20pm PT
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Chief, us military men took an oath to uphold the constitution, protect it, and obey the president.
The right of the federal government to own and control land is clearly spelled out in the constitution.
Keep in mind that this particular document was written under Bush, not Obama. I will provide a link to a great paper.
The U.S. Constitution addresses the relationship of the federal government to lands. Article IV, § 3, Clause 2 — the Property Clause — gives Congress authority over federal property generally, and the Supreme Court has described Congress’s power to legislate under this Clause as “without limitation.” The equal footing doctrine(based on language within Article
IV, § 3, Clause 1), and found in state enabling acts, provides new states with equality to the original states in terms of constitutional rights, but has not been used successfully to force the divestment of federal lands. The policy question of whether to acquire more, or to dispose of any
or all, federal lands is left to Congress to decide.
The initial federal policy generally was to transfer ownership of many federal lands to private and state ownership. Congress enacted many laws granting lands and authorizing or directing sales or transfers, ultimately
disposing of 1.275 billion acres.
However, from the earliest times, Congress also provided for reserving lands for federal purposes, and over time has reserved or withdrawn areas for such entities as national parks, national forests, and wildlife refuges.
The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 was enacted to remedy the de
terioration of the range on the remaining public lands. This was the first direct authority for federal management of these lands, and implicitly began the shift toward ending disposals and retaining lands in federal ownership. In 1976, Congress formally declared that national policy was generally to retain the remaining lands in federal ownership in
the Federal Land Policy and Management Act.
The “Sagebrush Rebellion” was a collection of unsuccessful state and local
efforts, beginning in 1978, to assert title to federal lands or force their divestiture. It also included efforts by the Reagan Ad
ministration and in Congress to divest of many federal lands, which
also proved unsuccessful.
http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/RL34267_12032007.pdf
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:22pm PT
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Survival Sir I salute you and thank you for your service.
You have done your Country proud.
What about YOUR OATH Chief?
Or is it more important to be an Oaf Creeper?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:26pm PT
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It took a LOT of pressure by the people to bring this into a more public light Riiiiiiiggghhhhht.....
like which of the hundreds of other BLM fee paying Nevada or Utah ranchers have stood up for him?
None that I've heard of. They all see him as a tick engorging himself on the backs of the people.
How many of the carpet-bagging "militias" came from Nevada?
Brave of them to stand behind their women and children.
The poseur wannabe patriots are nothing but delusional armed thugs. Constitution? They couldn't understand it even if they read it. Have they read any of it besides the 2nd Amendment? Have they read the Federalist Papers? Nope, didn't think so.
They have in fact been interfering with the Federal Gov't attempt to enforce a lawful claim. Which is of course a felony.
Yeah, the Feds got snookered on this one. The law is patient and has a very long memory.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
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Irony is that the Law that the right/white wingers are now (thanks Obama) bitchin' about was signed into Law by their Patron Saint and conservative "real" americunt posterboi Runold Raygun.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:43pm PT
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the government can levy bank accounts to satisfy judgments Let's do a little guesswork and a little math.
We know what Lundy's back fees are. Approx $300K. The gov't figures total with fees and interest it's over $1million. The fees and interest would likely be negotiable. IF Bundy had ever shown any willingness to negotiate, which he hasn't.
So what other assets does he have? 160 acres of melon farm and cattle land out in the sticks. Should the Feds have taken that little ranch and run him and his family off their property and livelihood?
They could have.
(by the way, that IS a little ranch, even here in the Bay area)
So that leaves the cattle. My wild arssed guess is 600 cattle X $2000 per head (a number one of Bundy's supporters on this thread posted very early on) = $1.2 million, MAX. But I read the Feds figured more like $1000 per head at auction. These cattle aren't those doe-eyed TV ad fatties.
And taking the cattle gets them off the trespassed land.
So just which of Bundy's assets should the Feds have tried to take?
If Bundy had a grain of sense he'd have given the cattle to the feds in exchange for his debts. I'm sure he could have worked out an even trade deal. He's just too damned stupid and pig headed for his own good. Digging his own grave and pulling some of his die hard supporters down with him.
You want a Patriot Poster Boy? You'll have to find somebody better than Bundy. Good riddance
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
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Did someone say rat fink?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:53pm PT
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edit: Dingus, i manufactured NOTHING. And you certainly didnt "rip" anything apart. Nevada the "shythole as described by many here is 100% with me. From our congressmen to Senators to Governor and legislators
Wow now it's 100% of Nevadastanians support armed insurrection in defense of a common cheat thief and racist AmeriC#&%. Look it up it is a real word. Ron's percentage keeps going up. Wow who knew that Bundy's Bigoted Blunder would be all it took to throw every single resident of Nevada behind the women and children at the Bundy Bunker
Only one leetle ol problemo RongO you are claiming the Nevada Gubmint is 100% behind Y'all in yer fight agin the Gubmint. Is this a double standard or are you sleeping with the enemy?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
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Mr Kos writes:
"Maybe because the remedy prescribed by the court involved removal of the cows..."
Who took the case to court? The BLM?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 25, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
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So just which of Bundy's assets should the Feds have tried to take?
If Bundy had a grain of sense he'd have given the cattle to the feds in exchange for his debts. I'm sure he could have worked out an even trade deal. He's just too damned stupid and pig headed for his own good. Digging his own grave and pulling some of his die hard supporters down with him.
You want a Patriot Poster Boy? You'll have to find somebody better than Bundy. Good riddance
Bank accounts, farm implements (for those of us fortunate enough to climb at Indian Creek--consider the ranch operation there--they've got all sorts of standard farmer/rancher machines, which aren't cheap), maybe put a lien on the land he does own and use that as negotiating leverage if you want to be nice (and if you don't want to be nice, just foreclose, and Bundy could move to North Las Vegas and make some new friends there).
I don't know what "standard debt collection" tactics were tried, but it's suspicious that we don't seem to get any reports of that.
Maybe there is some good explanation that those tactics couldn't be used here or didn't work for some reason; I'd just like to know.
Agree that anyone who makes Bundy their champion is a fool, but that doesn't mean we can't also take a look at the actions of the feds.
Here's an analogy that I make with full knowledge of the so-called "Godwin's law":
The Soviets did a good job in defeating the evil forces of Hitler in WWII. But I think it's well known that the Red Army didn't always act like perfect gentlemen, to put it ridiculously mildly (it basically raped, murdered, and plundered its way from Russia to Berlin).
Should there be no inquiry of atrocities committed by the Red Army (and other allies) just because the Germans were even worse?
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