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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Jul 30, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
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This has to be one of the most schizophrenic threads on ST. I have a headache.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 30, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
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How many accounts have you had, Mr Christ?
You know how many I have had because I have never made any attempt to be anonymous. Dumb ass.
I always appreciate your posts JE. Great to see intelligent people acknowledging good work.
Oh, and...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Ron and Blahblah,
Boy, now everyone thinks I'm losing it (See the Republicans thread recently)
Maybe I am, but I didn't say that the Obama administration was perfect. Ft. Hood represents a clear mistake. So does Boston. But so do 9/11, the Cole, Nairobi, etc. My support of the Obama administration on this issue reflects the administration's willingness to resist the anti-antiterror factions of both Democrats and Republicans.
If you want to see someone doing a bad job, just elect someone like Jim McDermott or Rand Paul, and see what happens.
john
Man, I used to think you saw sh#t logically, John! You are totally wrong here.
Can you see that the current admin (and the last one) pussy-ffoted around the real problem? The "war on terror". What is the war against? Is it justified (I think so)?
The Rand Paul's of the world say, "F*#k Them!", let's come home and batten down the hatches. The neo-con's and Obamas say, "let's create Democracy".
I stand with Rand on this. Not his Dad.
We have the ability to give the ME a middle-finger regarding oil, and we can also strike precisely where there are threats. Bring the boyz home!
Lastly, if we are going to fight a f*#king land war, can we do it old-school? Call the enemy names, demean them, and allow our troops the ability to KILL THEM. It's not a police action. It's war, and these boys of ours want to come home in one piece.
If we commit to war, then let our boys "cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war".
We owe them that.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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HELLYEAH, when WE commit let's get SOMEONE ELSE to fight the war on our behalf. Cuz, like, we're patriots!
DMT
Your lame discussion is growing tired. So tired that you fail to see my f*#king point!!!
Yeah, I never served, but did your genius pick up on the part where I said that GUYS WHO DID VOLUNTEER< SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE ALL DISCRESSION TO KILL THE ENENMY??? Did you miss that?
Or are you just so self-involved in some kind of military guilt that I can't say our guys should be able to shoot bad people?
I have no right to say that? Is that you idiotic point?
You have a 'non-servednik' obsession that is weird.
Re-read my former post. ^^^^^ above. weirdo.....
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Your lame discussion is growing tired. So tired that you fail to see my f*#king point!!!
He sees right through your f*#king point.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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"We have the ability to give the ME a middle-finger regarding oil, and we can also strike precisely where there are threats. Bring the boyz home!"
This has been the Obama administrations view as well Bluering. Out of Iraq, getting out of Afghanistan. Staying mostly out of Syria and Libya as well. The cost of even a minor skirmish is incredibly high (as we will soon see again in Iran).
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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"Re-read my former post. ^^^^^ above. weirdo....."
You are, at most, 7 years old.
Did you even read my anti-interventionist screed?
This has been the Obama administrations view as well Bluering. Out of Iraq, getting out of Afghanistan. Staying mostly out of Syria and Libya as well. The cost of even a minor skirmish is incredibly high (as we will soon see again in Iran).
Then why are we mobilizing mechanized divisions towards Syria via Jordan?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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bluering raged Yeah, I never served, but did your genius pick up on the part where I said that GUYS WHO DID VOLUNTEER< SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE ALL DISCRESSION TO KILL THE ENENMY??? Did you miss that?
Or are you just so self-involved in some kind of military guilt that I can't say our guys should be able to shoot bad people?
Ah, yes. The "well, if we were shooting at them then they were bad" theory to engagement. I think that worked out pretty well in Vietnam, no? Even with strict ROE our guys still manage to kill plenty of people who aren't "bad." Even with lots of training our police manage to do the same thing. Come out of your dream world. Also, those red lines under the words that appear when you bang on the keyboard with your fists are trying to tell you something.
*edit* Sweet! Patdollard.com links! I only like my news copy/pasted from actual news organizations and placed under the byline "The War Starts Here" so this site fits all my needs.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Wow, YourHighnessDJ is in full arrogance mode this morning.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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No I didn't miss it. I got it loud and clear. You want 'our boys' to go kill the boogermen of whom YOU are afraid. You want them to kill without mercy, on your behalf. You want them to do a job you wouldn't do yourself. I totally get it. You're like most pro-war Americans... all talk, no do. The only do you got is to get others to DO your fighting for you.
Yes, good point. And none of us should advocate for the guvment spending money on education unless we're a teacher, or spending on health care unless we're a doctor or nurse, etc.
The only things we should support the guvment doing are things that are exactly the same as our current or former jobs--that makes a lot of sense to me and I'm sure the rest of the ST geniuses!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Yes, you got it, you should not advocate sending teachers into a classroom unless you yourself have been a teacher.
That simple enough for you? Sound incredibly stupid?
If the answer to both of the foregoing questions is "yes," congratulations, you're capable of elementary reasoning.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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*edit* Sweet! Patdollard.com links! I only like my news copy/pasted from actual news organizations and placed under the byline "The War Starts Here" so this site fits all my needs.
The Dollard posts are sourced from common MSM sources, idiot. It says the source at the beginning of the post.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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bluering scoffed The Dollard posts are sourced from common MSM sources, idiot. It says the source at the beginning of the post.
It's true! They find the most hysterical, sensationalist broadcasts/articles they can find that reinforce the worldview of their audience and then re-headline them in a manner that redoubles the hysteria! I went and watched the actual broadcast about the Fort Hood shooter being given "special treatment by Obama" and it boils down to the shocking, SHOCKING revelation that:
The military flies him to court in a helicopter due to security concerns.
Which clearly was Obama's decision because he's a megalomaniacal Muslim capable of micromanaging the military but incapable of managing the military.
Some other choice PatDollardDotCom articles "sourced" from maintstream media:
http://patdollard.com/2013/08/watch-florida-school-bus-driver-stands-by-while-kids-beat-sixth-grader-may-face-charges/
Black School Bus Driver Stands By While Pack of Black Kids Beat Younger White Kid, Break His Arm, Rob Him
Turns out when you read the article or watch the video that the "Black School Bus Driver" called for help and tried to get the kids to stop but that's not important what's important is that a Black School Bus Driver Stood By While A PACK OF BLACK KIDS Beat And Robbed A White Kid. A whole PACK of them. And the black school bus driver just STOOD there. Being black. I don't understand why you people keep bringing up race as still being an issue all I see is some innocent dog whistling here ok?
http://patdollard.com/2013/08/ww2-hero-refuses-medical-care-so-cops-kill-him-in-his-nursing-home/
WW2 Hero Refuses Medical Care, So Cops Kill Him in His Nursing Home
Nursing home resident swings a cane and a large kitchen knife at staff, paramedics and police so they shoot him with a beanbag gun which then causes internal bleeding and he later dies but I think that headline accurately paraphrases that, don't you? Plus it was "excerpted" (decontextualized and rewritten) from the Chicago Tribune so you know it's accurate! Also they stretch the article out to like 5 times the original length by including excerpts from an interview with the family lawyer, nursing home executive and lots of editorializing which they fail to mention was not part of the original article. A pretty clever way to make it seem like all your "facts" are sourced by actual journalists!
PatDollard knows very well that bluering would never actual click the link to the original articles so I'm pretty sure they know who the idiot here is.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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He and his wife argued. He pulled a gun on her. She threatened to leave him. He put the gun away and followed her. She unloaded a volley of punches on him. He fetched the gun again. She pulled a knife. He wrestled it out of her hands. She punched him again.
Well, she DID pull a knife on him.
Seriously, though this is unbelievably terrible. Their 10 y/o daughter was in the house too.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Seriously though, I don't see why he couldn't use the "stand your ground" defense.
Do you think the outcome of the case would have been different based on the law of self defense in FL before SYG?
If so, why?
If you're a little confused (and I don't know if you are or you aren't), no biggie, it was clear in this thread that many posters had no idea of what changes to the law of self defense SYG made, what relevance SYG may have had to the Zimm case (nothing really, although some guy went ape sh#t based on the fact that an aspect of SYG was a part of the jury instructions), etc.
Lots of people seem to be mad that people have a right to defend themselves (and that right includes hurting or killing an attacker, depending on the circumstances), but that's true in every US jurisdiction. The details vary.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Yeah, elimination of the "duty to retreat" was an important aspect of SYG, but there are other important parts too (such as the "immunity" aspect of it, and a fee shifting provision in civil cases). I don't want to act like an expert on it; just looked at the law when following the Zimm case.
As I understand it, no one claimed that Zimm had a "duty to retreat," because once Trayvon was beating the crap out of Zimm, Zimm really couldn't retreat. (If you don't believe Trayvon was beating the crap out of Zimm and Zimm just assassinated Trayvon, that's fine, but under those circumstances, SYG isn't a defense. That was pretty much the prosecution theory.)
It isn't clear to me if the "duty to retreat" is relevant under the Facebook killer facts; it seems to me that you cannot safely retreat from someone attacking you with a knife, and so there may not be any difference in the Facebook killer case under SYG or under the pre-existing law.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Aug 22, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
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Wrap up in case anyone missed it. Jury heard all of the evidence and decided. Zimmerman is a free man and judged "not guilty".
"I'm letting the judge jury and prosecutors make the call. They will be looking at better evidence than any of us will get third hand or from typically sloppy biased reporting."
"If the head split, you must acquit" . The head was split.
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