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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:20pm PT
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People keep thinking guys who climb at a high level and run it out are doing it maybe on purpose to create a so called death route, stupid ass speculation.
Bachar, climbing with a hook, decided to run it out big time on the BY. I am sure I could go up there and find hook placements that, if used to drill from, would reduce the large run-outs.
I'm sure Bachar was feeling great when he put up the BY. But the fact is, he contrived the run outs. Surely not a "death" route, folks have taken the whipper without tragedy, but what we hold near and dear as a bad-ass standard is actually a contrived "test piece." I say he ran it out on purpose to create the so-called death route.
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Loomis
climber
Lat/Lon: 35.64 -117.66
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:27pm PT
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k-man: I disagree, Bachar has put up some great routes, knott™ all of them " Death routes "
Go to Czech republic, where they have had laws governing how a route is established
sice the late 30's.
Some of those make the BY look tame.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:32pm PT
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Loomis, I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. Bachar has put up some classics (I only wish I had the shoes to climb them!), and certainly the BY is one of them. I was just countering Werner's point--sometimes folks do purposely put up dangerous routes.
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nutjob
Stoked OW climber
San Jose, CA
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:48pm PT
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Haven't carved out the discretionary time to be fully informed on this thread, but feeling left out anyways so had to add some drivel.
There must be a spectrum of reasons for long run-outs on climbs:
1) Climber in the zone, not paying attention to pro
2) Climber in desperation, doesn't dare stop for fear of falling
3) Insecure: "look at how cool I am"
4) Vindictive and righteous: "my way is the right way, try to violate my ethics on this!"
this could probably be it's own thread, but I won't start it
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:48pm PT
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K-man. I think a lot of people in this thread (and in this forum in general) talk about absolutes and that hampers having a decent discussion.
I remember when Verne Clevenger put up Hoppy's Favorite on GPA. He intentionally did not put any bolts on the first pitch (5.8) just to keep the 'riff raff' off. So, yes, there are times when people create 'articificial' runouts.
Last year Clint and I replaced the bolts on a route I put up in Tuolumne Meadows(Myopia AKA UFR on Pennyroyal Arches). It is 5.10 and has three protection bolts per pitch. The reason it is so runout is because there were very few places for us to stop and drill. In fact, my partner took a pretty big whipper trying to put in the bolt which would ultimately protect the crux and the long runout above.
I don't think you can make a blanket statement about runout routes. It would be nice to hear from Bachar about his motives on BY.
Bruce
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:56pm PT
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kman
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:57pm PT
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that
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:57pm PT
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is a
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:57pm PT
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waste of
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:58pm PT
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bandwidth!
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:59pm PT
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BASE jumping to 2000 feet, anyone?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Apr 28, 2008 - 03:21pm PT
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Karl - I loaded this whole thread and copied to the clipboard (2 Ghz iMac G5 w/ 2 GB RAM,
and it tool just over 5 minutes. Also loaded in to MacBook with 3 GB RAM, just over 4 minutes.
However, when I pasted into MS Word 2008, the beach-ball spun, and is in fact still spinning on
both machines over an hour later. I'm gonna look for another app to try this with...
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 28, 2008 - 03:25pm PT
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I don't think you can make a blanket statement about runout routes.
Bruce, I totally agree with you here, and nutjob did a good quick run-down of some of the reasons we see runs.
It is interesting to ponder how routes that we consider to be done in the best style (bottom-up) can still have holes in them (no pun intended). I mentioned the BY specifically because it's a route that's held in high esteem. How dare I call it contrived! Yet, look at the fact.
Perhaps Bachar or Yerian will say "We did the route with the fewest possible holes, yet left a route that can be safely climbed."
It's a game we play, and we all bend the rules so that what we do fits into our own idea of what is acceptable. I know staunch stylists who will stand on a bolt to drill rather go back down. The rules bend just enough to allow your version of vision.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Apr 28, 2008 - 03:28pm PT
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Update: (actually, a Bullshít Filler Post™ disguised as an update)...
Just pasted all posts up to 1958 into Apple's Pages app, and it took a mere 55 sec on the iMac.
Hang on to yer seats - well over a quarter of a million words!!
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Loomis
climber
Lat/Lon: 35.64 -117.66
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Apr 28, 2008 - 03:29pm PT
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Wow, this is better than a movie
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
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you gotta start seeing some better movies pal
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Apr 28, 2008 - 03:36pm PT
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LOL!! Good one!
BTW, TiG - I actually wanted the images and formatting to appear in the document.
This is yet another example of why MS sucks and Apple rules...
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Apr 28, 2008 - 03:48pm PT
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If you say so...
But seriously, with the amount of html, scripting, and style stuff in the taco, I wouldn't use the ability to convert this page into a particular word processor format and render it as a measurement of computer worthiness.
:-)
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 28, 2008 - 03:52pm PT
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It seems Pretty obvious by the number of repete ascents that the BY is a great Classic. Do any of you think that we would even remember the name of the BY if it was so absurdly sketch that no one bothered to repete it? Would Southern Bell be remembered if Hank didn't get hurt on it?? Southern Bell has certainly gained a large part of its name recognition just from this thread. There Certainly are pleanty of death routs out there that just fade into oblivion.. Just a few more rusty 1/4 inchers stakeing claim to what could have been a great rout......
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