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dirtbag
climber
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come on, dirt, aren't you intrigued by the disparate responses to these religions? you don't have to be religious to be curious
it seems to me, if atheists are really afraid of religion's alleged destructive powers, then their focus should be on islam right now
there are many self-proclaimed muslims who publicly call for "death to the infidels", but most atheists (christopher hitchens aside) seem concerned only about christians and jews
then, when anyone does speak out against muslim violence, they are quickly condemend for "bigotry" (again, christopher hitchens aside)
it's like the atheists who mock the pope because he believes jesus rose from the grave, but then line up to kiss the dalai lama's ass even though he claims to be the 13th/14th reincarnation of some dude who died centuries ago
Frankly, I'm tired of the Christian as victim card. Boo-frigging hoo. Most of the people in the U.S. are christians, it is a domintant religion in western culture, so they are hardly oppressed. It is a fact that atheists are not well regarded in our society. So kindly STFU with your whining: it's tiresome.
If most of our responses are directed at Christians, it's because THAT is the fundamentalism we are confronted with most often and most directly here in the US. I see a lot more of the Christian right trying to legislate their values and trying do dumb down our schools, day in and day out, than the Islamic fundies. ID, anyone?
And while I agree it is hardly as horrific as sending out suicide bombing missions, which seems to be an Islamic fundy thing to do right now, it is nonetheless a form of tyranny.
I think ALL religous fundamentalism is a problem. They all suck! I also think all religions are equally preposterous and delusional, and I especially dislike fundamentalism of any stripe.
The Dalia lama is also a political leader. I can view his religion as bunk and his theocratic tendencies while appreciating the plight of his people.
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WBraun
climber
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Weird, .... dirtbag
I agree with everything you just said.
But still God exists .......
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MH2
climber
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I'm confused because it seems that God didn't know whether or not light was going to be good before he created it... but isn't he all knowing? he sort of winged it with light... "I'll just do it and see how it comes out"
If I recall, it was chaos, presumably containing both light and dark, and God merely divided the chaos into day and night. Although most of my information comes from The Creation by Handel.
and thanks for the beating dead horses references and the axe to break the frozen seas within
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Ed: there are a few things that taken literally don't make sense to me
The Bible has no shortage of things that don't make sense. Check out this site http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm
PS The KJV babble I have says, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, 1 Cor. 11.7 after our likeness.."
Just how many gods are there?
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dirtbag
climber
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Weird, .... dirtbag
I agree with everything you just said.
Thanks! And don't worry, I'll try to say something later to piss you off.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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PS The KJV babble I have says, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, 1 Cor. 11.7 after our likeness.."
Just how many gods are there?
BC,
Excellent question. The trinity is one: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit)
"I and my Father are one," to paraphrase Jesus.
Always have been, GOD IS, and always will be into the future for eternity.
Some things just are not explainable. It takes faith to understand.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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bc- "just how many gods are they"
There is one God!
God the Father.
God the Son.
God the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Trinity!
One God, in Three Persons.
Therefore, Us!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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By the way, good thing many of you GOD, Jesus, and Christian bashers are not public school teachers, because you would have to bite your tongue. It would probably be hard for many of you to do so.
I don't agree with the teacher getting fined, maybe a repramand would have been better. I suppose you could always use the excuss, "Oh did I say that outloud? I'm sorry I didn't mean to. I thought I was just thinking it only. My bad?" Although I've never used that tactic (probably wouldn't work).
As public school teachers we can not offend. Many topics in class I can not ever discuss. But I always encourage my students to open their minds and don't be afraid to look down rabbit holes. You'll never know unless you look at both sides of the coin. Don't be afraid to have your reality challenged. Always ask questions. Say, prove it to me!
So I come here to ST and "let my hair down."
Student Who Sued Teacher For Saying Bible Was BS (and won) Getting Slammed With Court Costs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6928690
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/court-corbett-fees-2636155-farnan-district
The student's website:
http://chadfarnan.com/
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Brian Hench
Trad climber
Anaheim, CA
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PS The KJV babble I have says, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, 1 Cor. 11.7 after our likeness.."
Just how many gods are there?
I have a good explanation for this one. The writer was employing the Royal We.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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It happens I am going to see the Dalai Lama in a couple of hours (yes, he even comes to Okinawa!) and I sure don't intend to kiss his ass - or even his hand for that matter.
The difference between the Christians and the Dalai Lama is that they claim to have the only truth and he has always said there are many paths to the same God. He has also said that if Buddhism conflicts with science, then Buddhism should change and he participates in a multi day seminar every year with western scientists looking for common ground. That's a big difference!
His appeal by the way is mainly as a spiritual leader, however much people sympathize with the Tibetan cause. One could say that he is the world's most influential spiritual leader in fact, precisely because he is not sectarian and he doesn't get involved in people's personal lives and try to dictate what goes on in the bedroom as do so many Christian leaders.
The Dalai Lama's values are universal and he actually lives them. A lot of other religious leaders could learn from him.
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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It takes faith to understand.
Obviously.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Thor is the mightiest champion of the Aesir Gods, the Protector and Hallower. It is Thor who defends Midgard and Asgard from the Jötunar (Giants: often destructive forces of entropy and chaos). The Thunder God's primary role is to maintain order and to protect the Gods, humans, alfs, and the Earth from destruction. Thor's famous Dwarf-made Hammer Mjollnir ("Crusher"?,"Miller"? or possibly cognate to the Russian molnya, "lightning") has the power of Lightning, and always returns to His hand when thrown. With its power and His enormous might, doubled by His magic Girdle of Strength, and the iron gauntlets with which He handles Mjollnir, He prevails against His enemies, and clears the ways of harmful wights. It is said that no thing living can stand against Thor. Although Thor is known as the Champion of the Gods, He is not known to take part in the battles of men on Earth. His strength comes from His holiness, which is unbearable to ill-willed beings, and He is not a God of unprovoked aggression. One of Thor's names is Óku-Thór (Driver-Thor), for He travels the skies and Earth in his chariot drawn by magical goats. Rolling thunder is the sound of Thor's chariot wheels as He rides the skies.
Thor's appearance is that of a mature man, tall, muscular, red haired and bearded, with very intense eyes. He is often symbolically depicted with wide staring eyes, possibly a sign of His spiritual might. Thor has a sometimes brooding, sometimes jolly nature, much like the weather. He is known for His great appetite for food and especially for mead, as well as for His willingness to battle giants. The Thunderer is known for travelling in His chariot drawn by the magical goats Tanngrísnir (Tooth-Gnasher) and Tanngnjóstr (Tooth-Grinder). If He wishes, Thor can kill and eat these goats' flesh for dinner, and by placing their bones upon their skin, awaken them in the morning to life by passing His hammer over them. Thor's realm in Asgard is a place called Thrudvangr ("Plains of Strength"), and his hall is Bilskirnir. Odin says of Thor's hall:
"Five hundred apartments and yet forty more I think are in Bilskirnir in all. Of the buildings whose roofs I know, I know my son's is the greatest"
The son of the sky God Wodan and the Goddess of Earth, Thor partakes of the nature of both. His lightning as the link between Sky and Earth symbolises the might generated by the meeting of opposites. Thor's mate is Sif, a Goddess about whom little lore has survived into the Christian era. It is believed by most modern Asatruar that She is a Goddess of the ripening grain. Her hair is golden, like the crops at harvest-tide. While He is in some respects a sky God of storms and weather, Thor maintains His connection to Earth in His aspect as Bringer of Fertility to crops. Thor has a powerful daughter, Thrudr ("Strength"), by Sif, and two mighty sons by a Jotun-lover: Modi ("Bravery") and Magni ("Main-Strength").
Agriculture is under Freyr and Freya's aegis, but is Thor's realm of activity as well. There is folklore that links lightning to the growth of crops. The Hammer of Thor can indeed be seen as a phallic fertility symbol, that hallows the crops to bring forth fruits. The Thunderer's bolts bring fertility to Sif's crops, and His rains nourish them. Thor historically was the God of farmers, the people of the Land. In a time when fertility of the crops meant life or death for the tribe, one can see that for the people Thor's role was a vital one indeed. One meaning of the rune Haglaz, "hail", is fertility. If an early storm--of Thor's brewing-- brought hail, when it melted it was thought to have a fertilising effect on the Earth. It is easy to see why Thor's hammers became popular amulets for health and vitality. Health, wholeness and holiness are linguistically linked in the Germanic languages, and indeed all three may be seen as Thor's gifts.
It is intriguing that the Protector God of the Northern pantheon, the upholder of cosmic order, is the God of Thunder and Lightning, considered by Indo-Europeans for thousands of years to be manifestations of divinity. One does not think of Jove without His thunderbolts, or of Thor without the accompanying roar of Thunder. The bone-shaking vibration of thunder has from the most ancient times been seen of as the sound of ultimate reality, communicating the most awesome truths to humankind. It is clear that to the human psyche, regardless of culture, the sound of thunder and the flash of lightning, most awesome of natural phenomena, are glimpses of the divine Mystery. AUM, the great mantra of the Buddhists, is the sound of thunder proceeding from vajra, the flash of cosmic enlightenment, and the perception at once of the harmony, wholeness, and order of all, transcending limited perception. Holiness and the lightning's supreme power are coupled to control the forces of chaos. It tells us much that lightning, though destructive at times, is nonetheless an attribute of the God Protector of humanity and the defender of life on Earth. I find this particularly relevant now, when science has advanced theory that life on earth was caused by lightning striking the "primordial" soup of Earth's early enzyme-laden seas.
As their special protector, Thor has always been the most beloved of Gods to the common folk. He was and is much honoured among Heathens. Thor's hammer was and is used in Heathen marriage ceremonies to bless the bride, and at funerals to hallow the pyre. On some of the ancient rune stones, Thor is called upon to hallow the runes. A large ceremonial Thor's hammer is used by the Goði in some Asatru kindreds to hallow ritual space, and offerings such as mead. Small amulets of Thor's hammer were worn in Viking times for protection, to signify that Thor was a personal friend among the Gods, and to publicly show Heathen troth. Many modern Asatruar wear Thor's hammers today for the same reasons.
Thor is a great traveller, and is known to go on journeys to the East (Giant-land) with other Gods. One of His companions on many of these journeys is Loki, although he is not a person for whom Thor has an excess of affection. Loki's cunning, sneakiness, and deceitfulness are certainly in opposition to Thor's directness and honesty. However, they seem a well matched pair of opposites, especially when it comes to having adventures. Loki, who through cleverness excels at both getting others into and out of trouble, and Thor, whose frank nature is both susceptible to and immune from deceits. Their sometime partnership adds conflict and interest to the tales we have recorded of them. When Loki does something truly terrible, however, it is Thor to whom the Gods turn to remedy the situation. Loki respects Thor, mightiest of living things, and does not relish the thought of having the Thunderer's hammer raised against him. It is, after all, Thor's job to see that Jötunish chaos does not get out of hand.
Thor has a sense of humour, and is not above making Himself foolish to some extent in a good cause. He does not brook insults, however, and especially finds the harm of innocents unamusing. When Loki crosses the line from sarcastic to dangerous, Thor is ready to step in. The God of Thunder dressed as a bride seems a farcical story, but it may be a memory of a more deeply significant shamanic tale. The fact that Thor's quest for his hammer (which is an obvious phallic symbol) involves dressing as a woman (an archetypal shamanic initiation for males) seems to indicate that this is the case.
As with all the Norse Gods, Thor is looked upon as a friend by his devotees. Thor is dedicated to the protection of human kind, and He is good to call upon when travelling or in dire situations. His is the power to break through obstacles and strike to the heart of the matter. Thor brings freshness, honesty, directness to a situation. The Well-Wisher of Men can give clarity, and bestow spiritual enlightenment. As Thor loves companionship and feasting, He is good to invoke at feasts, and brings jollity to celebrations. Master of powerful natural forces, Thor is trusted and loved by the folk because He uses His awesome might to protect and keep order, not to harm and destroy. Like His Father Odin, Thor is very concerned with preserving the Earth and all Life.
Remember Thursday is Thor's Day. So us English speaking folks are all worshiping an old Heathen God!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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That's why the Quakers refused to call the days of the week by their names and labeled them First Day, Second Day etc. instead.
Your point however, is well taken in that there is no such thing as "pure Christianity". All of it and every other religion has been filtered through the previous religions and cultures.
Take the Christmas tree for example, it also comes to us through the pagan Germans and they were forbidden in most churches throughout the 19th century, but became so popular thanks to the German immigrants that now even Jews have them as long as they're decorated in blue and white and called Hannakah bushes!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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so no one's got any idea about what the words in Genesis, taken literally, actually mean? that's odd...
who's mocking christianity, certainly not me... but it would seem if the Bible is the literal word of God to be taken such, that someone must have some idea of what those words are... and the meaning is not to be altered or interpreted as anything other than what is there...
If christians cannot agree among themselves, after 2009 years, it is more than odd...
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WBraun
climber
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So Ed ...?
Was the linear accelerator designed by some intelligence ......
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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enough Werner, I'm not interested in answering obvious questions... people have said that the Bible is the literal word of God, so I would like to understand just what that means.
Taken literally, the Bible seems much more limited in scope than I had remembered. MH2 talks about chaos, but there is none mentioned there... God creates light, fiat lux and then decides it is good. Sort of a half-assed way to intelligent design, don't you think? Just through something out there and see what happens. "Whoa, that stuff is pretty good! I'll keep it!"
The people who built the Stanford Linear Accelerator didn't just through stuff out there.
But hey, I'm not questioning that the Bible is literally true, I just want to know what it means that God doesn't seem to have an idea about what it is that is being created... oh, and no need to be careful with pronouns either, we also learn that man is created in his image, so he is a he... at least that's what is written in Genesis.
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WBraun
climber
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So if you know the obvious answer to my question then you know the answer to yours.
I just want to know what it means that God doesn't seem to have an idea about what it is that is being created.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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It's not obvious if it is written the way it is... and there is no other way of reading it than to take the words literally... no interpretation...
...no one that worked at Stanford was winging it.
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WBraun
climber
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It's not obvious if it is written the way it is
Yep
...no one that worked at Stanford was winging it.
Yep
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