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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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Apr 27, 2008 - 06:58pm PT
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I just want to be sure I am reading the topo correctly.
Every pitch on the route has a bolted belay / rap station.
From the belay at pitch 13, at the end of the traverse, five additional bolted rap stations allow for a direct descent from there instead of reversing the traverse and rapping the route.
The route has somewhere around 180 bolts not counting the escape rappel (I really tried counting but the ADD kicked in and I lost it.)
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Apr 27, 2008 - 07:38pm PT
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K-bone, count'em again and tell us what you get, we're closing in on 2,000, and I need to see something noteworthy accomplished today. =)
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Apr 27, 2008 - 07:43pm PT
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Is the bolt count correct? Are you sure its not just a bunch of X's to fill in spots? Sometimes I see topos where just a line of X's means a line of bolts, i.e. not the actual count. Just curious, I don't really care either way.
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ec
climber
ca
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Apr 27, 2008 - 08:56pm PT
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nothin' else to say...
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 27, 2008 - 09:00pm PT
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All speculation and hear say so far except from the party who climbed the route. Looking for a report from someone when they do climb the route.
Scott...the face has been there for 22 years since you did SB...you snooze you lose.
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climbrunride
Trad climber
Durango, CO
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Apr 27, 2008 - 09:14pm PT
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Dang it, Bob! You stole my line to coz by mere minutes.
But in the interest of getting a real climbing thread to 2k posts, I'll post anyway.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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Apr 27, 2008 - 09:51pm PT
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" ...Are you sure its not just a bunch of X's to fill in spots? "
Ummm. He says 18 draws plus lockers for the belays. I see 18 bolts on several of the pitches.
How about the escape route? Like I said about 1K posts ago. Convenience is the order of the new day.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 27, 2008 - 11:03pm PT
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183 bolts on the route... sorry to ask but, what kind of bolts did you use? in particular, how are they going to be maintained...
and looks like crack climbing low, but beyond where I am climbing (not only am I a crack climber, I would venture to guess that I'm just a weekender duffer).
Thanks for the topo.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 28, 2008 - 01:19am PT
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Sean, just out of curiosity, how long have you been climbing? Just curious as to your climbing influences. Do you think those informed your decision to go the way you did, or were they not really part of the equation? No ill will intended. Truly just looking to understand the process. I'll try and email you later, rather than clap trap the taco stand. Going to sleep now.
one more post to 2k, tho! :)
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 28, 2008 - 01:21am PT
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1907 posts divided by 183 bolts = 10.42 posts/bolt.
Brought to you by the SuperTopo Department of Meaningless Statistics and Associated Thread Bumping.
Jaybro edit: 183 bolts/21 pitches = 8.7 bolts/pitch. There seems some doubt as to the exact number, and perhaps ten of the 183 may only be part of the 'direct' rappel route, so the ratio may be lower.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 28, 2008 - 01:27am PT
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How many other routes of that length have 10.42 bolts per pitch?
Dept adjunct to Ander's chair.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 28, 2008 - 01:33am PT
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haha, bluryr eye'd
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Sean Jones
climber
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Apr 28, 2008 - 01:47am PT
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Every belay has 10mm stainless Raumer bolts. These are the same quallity as Fixe stainless. Lets just say they will be in really good shape in a very long time. Many of the bolts on pitches are the same but not all. The rest are a bit lower of a grade of stainless redheads. I've used these in many places and am still clipping some that were put in almost 20 years ago. They're in great shape still and have a long way to go.
No bolt on the route should be needing replacement for 30 if not 40 years and the Raumers even more. I'll either be dead or at least 80 years old by then. I'll make a promise right here and right now to deal with this myself when needed. Either do it myself or pay someone to do it. Unless I'm living in a van at old age and living on dehidrated potatoes and way broke.
I don't really see that happening though. I'd like to think I could get my sh$t together by then. I'd like to think that replacing bolts by then was a bit easier and a bit less barbaric than now.
Then again maybe some super motivated f#ck will just go out and chop them before all that and save us all.
Went climbing today for the first time since the snake bite. The finger isn't perfect but is getting better really fast. Still feel really sick though. I feel very lucky to be back out at all. Can't wait to be full force again. Big plans for this year.
Hey, here's something I've been thinking about.
If someone climbed the bottom 1/2 of GU to the top of the 14th pitch,and headed left a bit then straight up, they could add an all new finish somewhere near the big black streak,on lead of course. You would have passed beneath all of the top down upper wall by staying off of the 15th pitch.
No problem going far enough to the left to not squeeze GU. Do check into where I think it's Lost in space that cuts through the upper wall to not f#ck that up. I think there's plenty of room for all that though and not even be close to a squeeze job.
An all out amazing opportunity to go up there, do the most beautiful line on Earth and show everone how it's done. And not have to deal with any of the labor that went into the lower wall.
Speaking of not squeezing, in one of the photos of the so. face,
it looks as if GU is not so far left of SB on the upper headwall. That's just the way one of the photos looked to me. Fear not though, GU is hundreds of feet left as it cuts through the upper wall. It's very spacious up there by saying hundreds of feet left, I mean 400 or so. No logical line will ever exist between GU and SB. Not without making a mess and doing 16 pitches of GU then going right and up. That would pretty much suck.
The line I mentioned going left of GU and up would not suck. But you really want to pay attention to where Lost tops out or it could suck. Just thought I'd mention that because my sights are set on other things and I'm not one of those people who want to try and hoard all the good lines nor am I worried about there not being enough rock left out there.
I know first hand and probly more than many just how much rock is really out there. In the sierras alone. It's absolutely mind bogelling. Really.
Peace, get off the computer,go climb, and try to remember to have fun out there.
Sean.
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Sean Jones
climber
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:41am PT
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Something else to think about, All of the pitches on the upper wall are very long. One has 15 bolts, 2 have 14 bolts, and one has I think 19. These are 200 ft pitches and very sustained. Even the 19 bolt pitch gives you an average of 10 ft between them. That's 20 plus ft. falls on steep slab and 30 plus ft. falls on the others. As the climbing gets easier up high, there's probly a few spots to take 4o plus ft. falls. With all the hard climbing below, the concept of falling up there is quite possible.
As much as some may want to think of this as the light wieght route on the s.face or the route for the masses, you may want to take the time and REALLY think about where this climb is.
And just how sustained the entire route is. Not for a second should anyone think that the S. face is a safe place to be. EVER.
Even with the options to get off of the route, epic weather and
injury could take you down fast. I can't say this more clearly, there's NOTHING safe about being on that wall or any wall for that matter. Don't take it for granted.
Another thought or two. This project took 41/2 months of my life over. Probly ran in and out of there around 40 times dealing with family stuff, getting the bills paid,grocery runs,birthday parties for the kids,t-ball and tons of logistics for the wall itself.
You can bet your ass everything was VERY thought out the way the route came together and would be left behind. One thing I really thought of was the way climbing in Yosemite is. And how this wall may be most commonly done in the future.
Most hard core aid climbers don't really tend to be super hard free climbers so the upper wall is a bit of a problem. And there's only so many people that just run around blasting up 2,000 5.13's in the back country.
No question in my mind that the most common use of this route in the years to come will be the high speed, french free the bottom and be forced to free the top approach. The same as the NW face is now. This route is laid out so well for that type of climbing as well as the bad ass all free attempts.
The bolt ladder is laid out to not need aiders and just pull through. Light wieght and fast ascents of this route will almost surely be the norm. Yet only by climbers of a certain level.
Lots of thought was put into this as well. Hell just run up, do the first 10 on GU, then 5 classic free piches on S. face route,
The first 3 pitches of SB (killer crack climbing) and 8 piches on Laid to rest out right. That's 26 epic piches of crack climbing and a few more killer ones at the base.
It's all good !
GO !
Sean.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Apr 28, 2008 - 03:10am PT
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So, the FA party was talking about rapping in from the top to save damaging the rock with more holes than necessary on dead ends if they were to do the route ground up. Now, Sean admits that they placed the bolts in the A0 bolt ladder close enough so that you could do the moves without having to resort to using aiders. That seems like a contradiction from the rationale stated above.
If the FA team really wanted to save on bolt holes they should have spaced out the bolts on the ladder as far as possible. This may seem like nit-picking, but if saving holes was really one of the reasons they rap bolted then every unnecessary hole contradicts that goal.
This seems like another "convenience" move just like the escape rappel route and further erodes the goal of trying to minimize damage to the rock.
Bruce
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 28, 2008 - 03:15am PT
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Sean + Ken,
Thanks for drawing the topo and sharing it. Much easier to visualize the climbing now. Thanks for including the freed pitches on the original South Face as well. I will try to make a better photo overlay, using the topo and a photo taken from a better position.
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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Apr 28, 2008 - 05:37am PT
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Wow, hard to believe this is still going and even harder to believe no one has gone up there to climb it or parts of it...
My contribution to the 2000th post...
This comment;
"You can bet your ass everything was VERY thought out the way the route came together and would be left behind. One thing I really thought of was the way climbing in Yosemite is."
...brought to mind the following poem and it made me reflect a bit on the two.
From Thomas Merton's interpretation of Chuang Tzu, The Way of Chuang Tzu.
THE NEED TO WIN
When an archer is shooting for nothing
He has all his skill.
If he shoots for a brass buckle
He is already nervous.
If he shoots for a prize of gold
He goes blind
Or sees two targets-
He is out of his mind.
His skill has not changed.
But the prize
Divides him. He cares.
He thinks more of winning
Than of shooting-
And the need to win
Drains him of power.
This is not ment as a judgment but simply as a refelction.
Cheers,
DD
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 28, 2008 - 07:58am PT
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Coz wrote
"They took a big step backwards, and their rational, money and time; they lack any kind of real respect for the future and their act was far from self-less.
I feel the bolts should be removed by the first descent party, and the mighty face be climb on it's own terms. The South Face is one of the last great places to climb, in free-stance style.
I find it very sad that no one seems to respect anything anymore, maybe it's the times or lack of education. Maybe the mindless media has turn us into spirt-less drones.
Just my thoughts, DR and Sean if you did the climb on stances and protected it well, you wouldn't have to tell the world what great climbers you are - they would know, be humble and do the right thing."
I think it would be just as rational, although perhaps not as popular in our hero worshipping culture for me write:
"Dave and Coz took a big step backwards in their ascent of Southern Belle, and in their rational of saving money and time; they lacked any kind of real respect for future climbers and their lives and well being. Their act was far from self-less, it was ego aggrandizement with lack of regard for their own welfare and for those who would follow. The nature of hard slab climbing is insecure enough that virtually no one can count on not falling so X-rated hard slab climbing is asking each climber to play a game of Russian Roulette with each ascent.
I feel that bolts should be added to Southern Belle by the next ascent party, and the climb opened up to party with more than a dysfunctional respect for their own lives. The South Face is one of the last great places to climb and classic lines shouldn't lay as rusting testimonies to the 2 days in 20 years when a couple climbers gambled their health and future on some holds that make dimes look like jugs.
I find it very sad that some of the Elite don't respect others, maybe it's the need to be "Special." If you claim 2000 feet of rock for your route, create it so it can be climbed by those not open to suicide. Maybe the mindless media has turn us into spirt-less drones, who glory in the acts of 'supermen' trying to show us how superior they are. The only guy to do a second ascent has free soloed 5.13 and even he was scared. Is this really a good use our a limited resource?
Just my thoughts, Dave and Coz, if you did Southern Belle and protected it well, you wouldn't have to tell the world what great climbers you are - they would climb your route and be grateful for it, be humble and let others make a generous choice for the future instead of a selfish one. Folks play Russian Roulette rarely enough that they don't need 8 guns to play with on the SFHD."
food for thought and more posts
Peace
Karl
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Apr 28, 2008 - 08:57am PT
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Where's Nuts Only Cliff? I've googled it but can't find a reference. Just curious.
EDIT
To Peter's post below this one, thanks Peter, sound like a cool cliff.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Apr 28, 2008 - 09:07am PT
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Patrick,
Nuts Only is reached along with Audobon Buttress by hiking up the partly avalanched-out Old Big Oak Flat Rd about 1/4 mile west of El Cap Meadow. You reach the Little Wing Area this way also. Some great short free climbs amongst these features.
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