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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I’m doing what I’m doing with medicine because I’ve f*#ked up every single recovery attempt so far. My will is equally strong, nay, stronger, because I trust science over my own weak self will. Shitty thing to say about yourself, but there you have it. If anyone on the Internet should know how weak and shittily flawed I am, it’s all of you.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I posted a phone number upthread, even if you want to talk sh#t, give me a holler.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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It is very challenging to keep them off alcohol. Meds tend to be useless,
Naloxone is the exception. As long as you continue to take it you have no urge. Also keeps you off opiates because opiates do not work when you have Naloxone in your system.
Ken M. -- AA and its mission statements are not the only way.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I really hope it’s ok to be sharing this stuff on a climbers forum. Seems a little weird sometimes. But, f*#k it, I’ve been writing on the inter web with you people for a long time. So, I guess, tough sh#t. ;)
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Sorry to have hijacked this thread.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Hijacked? Hardly! This is the thread dedicated TO talking about sobriety. Part of that includes the not sober/getting sober stuff and all that goes with it.
Now if you were posting this in one of the political threads....... hahahah.
Brandon - don't beat yourself up. The booze has been doing that for you. Now it's time to rest and take care of yourself.
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Robb
Social climber
Cat Box
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Brandon
DO NOT GIVE UP!
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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You haven't highjacked anything Brandon, this IS what this thread is here for, and climbers are as good as any community in terms of providing remote support. Your situation is acute and immediate, it makes a lot of sense for this thread revival to be all about you and your needs. I'm glad you've got some local folks to work with, internet "attaboys" can help but its far from enough.
And really, I didn't intend to start a round of debate about whether AA works or not, I just wanted to point out that there are other options and approaches. I know a lot of folks who swear by AA and have had it work for them, sometimes for decades, its just not something I would be able to follow.
I remember BVB used to tell me that his "higher power" was the 4th pitch 5.9 traverse on Hoppy's Favorite, that clean sweep of squeaky glass friction was all about faith.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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This thread is REALLY helping, btw.
Clipper, you rock beyond words.
Any phone calls are most welcome. Phone conversations with strangers are really nice, IMO.
Edit; my number can be found upthread. I could use a call or two!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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It is very challenging to keep them off alcohol. Meds tend to be useless,
Naloxone is the exception. As long as you continue to take it you have no urge. Also keeps you off opiates because opiates do not work when you have Naloxone in your system.
Ken M. -- AA and its mission statements are not the only way.
I agree that AA is not the only way, but it is far more available to most people, with a vast history of success.
You have confused Naloxone, with is only used as an injection or nasal spray, with the oral medication Naltrexone, which is a pill. Naloxone also has the severe disadvantage of only lasting about an hour, while naltrexone is much longer lasting.
But let me describe an example (which is real) of why medications are of limited usefulness. I had a young intelligent woman drunk, whose life was being ruined by her drinking. It took a year of therapy to discover that the reason that she drank, was that every time she was idle, or tried to sleep, the sounds of her own screaming as she was raped by her father, threw her into a terror. A year of pharmacotherapy, including Naltrexone, had no impact on her drinking.
Once the underlying issue was uncovered, therapy directed to dealing with it eventually resulted in stopping drinking.
Drinking is the symptom, not the underlying problem.
BTW, I can't help but find it ironic that people complain about doctors always pushing drugs to push people out the door, but when one suggests that these problems require a more robust approach, posters push drugs......
However, I don't want to discourage anyone from the appropriate use of drugs recommended by a skilled, trusted practitioner. They can be very helpful-when used in the right setting.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Brandon, I tried calling you tonite, but I imagine that it was quite late your time, so got your machine (or alternatively, you were talking to someone else!). Anyway, wanted you to know that I've reached out. I'll call again.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Ken I agree with most of that. And I don’t claim to know the accurate drug names either. Also in nearly all other cases I tend to steer far away from the med approach ie. anti depresants , benzos and others that often just compound the problem. I believe Naloxone or its relatives are the exception. It just seems to block and over power the problem drug, alchohol and opiates. And the shot lasts a month. I’ve see it work.
Cheers
Go Brandon
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Ben Harland
Gym climber
Kenora, ON
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God damn, I love when Ken M pops up on a thread.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, Brandon_ ... i will also call sometime, next week...
just to see if i might have anything to share, that may help...
:)
yes-- keep checking in here...
you need 'signs' along the trail... keeps the mind-set,
as to where one is going... :)
you know-- then-- no side trail-wanderings, or, less temptations...
:)
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
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Q. What's the worst part about knott drinking?
A. When you wake up in the morning, that's as good as you're going to feel all day!
This is SOOO true!
I usually "only" have 2 or 3 beers a day, and rarely have any spirits, other than the occasional homemade bloody mary. In late Nov I decided to try knott drinking during the week, in order to give my body a break and to help get back in shape. What was completely unexpected was how amazingly better I felt after 3 days! I didn't want that feeling to go away by having a beer, so I "kept going", so to speak. Rediscovering herbal tea has been great!
An unexpected, remarkable benefit of knott drinking: A couple months ago I got an MRI on my ankle, and was told the only way I could do long hikes or any running without pain / inflammation would be to get it fused together with pins or an outright ankle replacement. It was getting to the point to where it was stiff and hurt just getting out of bed, and I was getting depressed, thinking I'd have to get the operation sooner rather than later just to function normally. After one week of knott drinking all soreness went away! I even did a fast-paced 7.4 mile hike to the top of Mt Tam and back and forgot to wear my ankle brace. Was not sore afterward! This is nothing short of miraculous. Also some forearm tendonitis completely went way.
I feel lucky in that I don't consider myself an alcoholic. But I do crave beer every day when I drink regularly, sometimes as early in the day as late morning (that's scary). So it is psychologically addictive at least. It was hard for me to commit to taking even a short break from my modest drinking, even after prompting from girlfriend who is an MD and who does knott drink during the week. I do understand addiction quite well, as I smoked 2 packs of cigs a day for decades, finally quitting cold turkey--and for good without a doubt--on Memorial Day 1998 (I had smoking dreams for years afterward).
One thing that struck me about sobriety meetings is that a lot of people chain smoke cigs and wolf down donuts and coffee during breaks. I think nicotine is profoundly more addictive than alcohol; I have met people who quit heroin but couldn't shake cigarettes. Scary and sobering, pun very much intended. Best wishes to all who have posted to this thread. My positive thoughts are with you.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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True, about the sugar substitution. I'm guilty of that, although I wouldn't say I "wolf down" the stuff. But one night, when I was considering going "no sugar," to see if it was really as toxic as non-sugar people tell me, and to see if I could better my life through the change, I heard a little voice in my head. A sad little lonely me.... say in a pining tone, "But that's my friend."
I tend to have some little snack while in bed at night doing reading, before going to sleep(being on a sunlight schedule, once it goes down, my day begins to wind down too, so in bed with a book and a headlamp is like someone else watching tv for an hour or so). Sometimes the snack is a sweet, and sometimes a salty one. In the past year I've found I don't seem to "need" it like I used to, and go without quite a bit. But I never forgot that feeling of losing my good and loyal "friend," sad as that may seem to those who can't imagine what I am talking about.
The thing about a sugar addiction - it may damage our own health, but we're unlikely to kill someone else because we were driving on a sugar binge, and we're unlikely to screw up showing up for family, work, other commitments because of it.
Progress, not perfection.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
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I've used chromium picolinate in the past with good results - you might want to try it:
https://jennpike.com/knock-your-sugar-cravings-out-with-chromium/
My point about sugar / cigs is that I think it's best to cut out everything at once so you can experience what an unencumbered body feels like. Hell yeah, it's hard. I can't imagine a hell worse than nicotine withdrawal. But these days they have patches and whatnot. The real trick is STAYING OFF. It took me a full year before I felt I had beaten cigs for good. Reminds me of another line:
"Quitting smoking is the easiest thing is the world, I've done it a hundred times"...
I "quit" many many times! But even during those brief periods I felt it was MUCH easier if I stopped coffee at the same time. I would say the same for sugar. It's gonna be hell no matter what. Just remember, the mind is strong - flesh is dumb. I am in control of my body; I will knott succumb to wanton, mindless cravings of the flesh!
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Oh, my internal reaction to your suggestion! Hahah - all I'll say is "you have to want it" and I guess.... I guess what I want is my little sugar friend more.
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Mike Honcho
Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
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Getting clean becomes a matter of life and death, at some point. I got sober when it was pretty much AA and that's it besides chemical detox. I'm grateful for my luck, and the way I learned how TO live through AA. But I sure don't want to be preachy to someone standing on the precipice.
Wildly good thoughts Happie. So praying and routing for you Brandon. This is a lot of information directed at you dude and you have to just give it your all.
Caylor
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Sobrieties been a real bitch thus far, but the phone calls have helped SO much. Keep ‘em coming, any hour of the day. My wife is actually sleeping next to me right now, sweet!
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