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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 21, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
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Universal healthcare wasn't being discussed back in the 70s.
Not really.
It was a non-issue. Today it's not a far left issue. I'd be okay with it. Does that make me a leftwing radical?
Were you an advocate for gay marriage? Transgender rights?
How about elimination of immigration controls?
Repealing the 2nd Amendment?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 12:36pm PT
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Jimmy Carter talked of it ,so your right ,it wasn’t discussed.
HS
Everything in the progressive agenda,for people,is revered today as radical or dreaming Same as the 70s,wages,war ,MIC,you name it.
You are lucky those coastal elites up there ran HIllary.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 21, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
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GoSuck was such a great pick? Ironically Trump appointed him because Congress violated the Constitution and refused to vote on Obama's choice. Good one blabby.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 21, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
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How far right? Goldwater would be considered a Progressive, Nixon slammed as a moderate Republican, and Reagan disavowed as a Democrat.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 21, 2018 - 01:01pm PT
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For example, who can doubt that the decision would have been the opposite in this case: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/21/divided-supreme-court-rules-for-businesses-over-workers.html
Hey, that's a great example of yet another case where trump's working class base voted to f*#k themselves up the a*# as they are the very workers in question.
Oh the plaintiffs' class action lawyers are Trump's working class base? They're the only ones that strike it rich in that game (well I suppose their well heeled counterparts on the defense side don't too badly either).
But anyway, not everyone is in favor of a judicial system where you just pick which outcome in a particular case you like and then magically that's what the law becomes. No, we'd rather have the honest "balls and strikes" jurisprudence of the great Chief Justice Roberts, even though it occasionally may generate an undesirable result in a particular case. (But if you look at Supreme Court cases with Roberts in charge, the honest balls and strikes approach seems to provide a pretty good outcome most of the time!)
GoSuck was such a great pick? Ironically Trump appointed him because Congress violated the Constitution and refused to vote on Obama's choice. Good one blabby.
True they may have played "fast and loose" with the Constitution on that one, and used a little hardball to get rid of Garland. I would have preferred that they would have considered Garland and, after due deliberation, voted his ass out of there! But as the result would have been the same, we can consider the Senate's seemingly unconstitutional refusal to even consider Obama's pick just a "harmless error" as they say in legal circles.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
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Conservatism always falls the same way — justice prevails. Justice is the force that resets the term deserving to mean everyone. Conservatism always fights justice the same way — with power exercised by the select few. The only variable is the power applied: money, intimidation, physical force.
Be very clear. Donald Trump is a symptom, not the problem. Neo-Nazis are symptoms, not the problem. Vast inequality is a symptom, not the problem. Voting rights suppression is a symptom, not the problem. Violence against immigrants is a symptom, not the problem. Economy-breaking tax breaks are a symptom, not the problem. Putting a US embassy in Jerusalem and getting protesting Palestinians killed are symptoms, not the problem. Denying Medicaid benefits to poor people is a symptom, not the problem. Good Lord, one can go on and on and on for days. The denials of justice are stacking up like a Jenga game. Like Jenga, conservatism always fails. By denying justice, conservatism is fundamentally unstable. It always pulls blocks from the foundation to benefit the top.
Can any conservative disagree with any of this analysis?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2018 - 02:42pm PT
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True they may have played "fast and loose" with the Constitution on that one, and used a little hardball to get rid of Garland.
The Republicans think they're being clever when they game the system, as with Gerrymandered districts and violating the Constitution. But, the public is becoming fed up with favoritism towards an elite few, and Congress will soon be in the hands of the Democrats. And, all the monkey business that temporarily empowers the Republicans will be thrown back at them, in spades.
The presence of a deceptive, deceitful and dishonest president is part of the GOP's temporary empowerment. Like all con men, Trump's game plan relies on people being stupid and gullible, and he has contempt for his victims. Soon, Trump will be fully exposed and voter remorse will be widespread.
It is truly fortuitous that Trump is so arrogant and hubristic, he continues to violate law after law, erroneously believing himself to be too big to fail. He thinks that he can't be indicted, because that would be too disruptive for the nation. Trump's false sense of invincibility will directly contribute to his downfall, the same way it did for Nixon.
History will show that Trump did, indeed, make America great again. His moral turpitude, disregard for the truth, and his financial exploitation of the office of president is so extreme and repugnant, entire chapters will be written into the law books. For example, it will be mandatory for presidential candidates to release their tax returns, and for them to sever financial ties that could pose a conflict of interest. Laws against pay-for-play corruption will be tightened up, and penalties will be harsher. There will be greater scrutiny and enforcement of election laws, so that foreign nations, hostile or friendly, do not influence or interfere in our elections. Foreign influence in our political system, as a whole, will be diminished.
A Democratic backlash against the current Republican agenda favoring elites is coming. The key word is democratic, as in coming from the voters. #MAGA
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 21, 2018 - 03:26pm PT
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I have not posted on this thread for a bit of a while, but I follow it, it is fun.
I have made my beliefs and feelings known already and I am not going to change anybody's mind.
So…
I have power washed the house to prep for painting, polished off a manuscript, now for the tough part… my publisher.
Got the kayak out as the weather and sea is much calmer lately, bouldered some.
So this weekend, a bottle of wine, reduced (price) fillet steak and prawns (surf and turf, no lobster though).
and watched the first three Star Wars. It's been a while.
And one thing that struck me is that, Jabba the Hutt and Donald Trump could be twins.
Cue some window cleaner digging up photos of me and altering them. I await.
EDIT
And…
Aggie (dog) and Betty (cat) get along like sister they play, "fight", it was funny to see Betty chasing Aggie around the yard yesterday, I wish I could have videotaped it.
But this evening, I always feed Betty first, as the younger and smaller always goes first. Aggie ate her full then "sniped" at Betty, jealously probably. Betty was nervous and hid behind the TV, never saw that before. I quietly and slightly reprimanded Aggie,
I am trying to reconcile them, of course they will, they love each other, just two different species misunderstanding one another.
Homo Sapiens are one species, and the level of misunderstanding between humans can be staggering.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 03:32pm PT
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Tom, you make good points, I wish I had the same hope
The conservatives will never change, they will do everything possible to win in 2018 and 2020. The smear campaigns, gerrymandering, voter roll purges, voter machine tampering, and every other way to cheat will be off the charts...
The far left will vote for a third party, and we may lose.
The Republicans have control of all the branches of Government
It may take a Constitutional crisis to take this cancer out.
Just look at the circular firing squad here,
we're screwed
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 03:44pm PT
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Look if you believe the far left did not vote for HIllary and just voted for a third party candidate,there is nothing I can say to change your mind.
Every progressive I know voted for H.
It was the weekend liberals and moderates that stayed home ,allowing all this.
Go back and read what DMT said about this.
The real problem was H not caring about a few states that won it for T.
Edit;Tom, I hope you are right.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 04:09pm PT
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Agreed
But H lost those states from other reasons than not caring
Those states were targeted for must wins by Trump and the rigged system
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
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Agreed
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 21, 2018 - 04:54pm PT
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The conservatives...will do everything possible to win in 2018 and 2020. Of course, as it should be. The considerable potential for losing the voters they've gained over the years probably why they are so loathe to acknowledge, much less call out, the Trump shenanigans.
I think the GOP pols would rather see their *party* morph into a dictatorship rather than let go of what they see as control.
The far left will vote for a third party, and we may lose. We will lose. We already did in 2016 due to the Bernie campaign. I really enraged me that people were selfish and went with the pie in sky ideals like "free college, free healthcare," when there was so much more at stake.
There has been indication that the 2016 support for Bernie was as much a fake news/amplified campaign as was the anti-Hillary. Dems can be angry all they want that GOP's voted Trump, but when it comes time to look at themselves, and admit they fell for a smoke and mirror campaign themselves - not so willing to accept that one. They DO bear a responsibility for the Trump win.
You can COUNT on a push toward another idealistic candidate in 2020.
It may take a revolution to take this cancer out.
That is what *they* want us to believe. AND act upon. It is just MORE DISINFORMATION AND PROVOCATION. Be CAREFUL about that line of thinking.
It is utterly naive to believe there is ANY possibility that a repeat of the founding fathers of this country will rise like the phoenix of war again in a new generation. NOT.GOING.TO.HAPPEN.
Take a look around at any of the countries engaged in civil war. THAT is the reality. Starvation, Displacement, Round-ups, Torture, Rape, Murder... While the rich and powerful sit back and enjoy the show the way the proles watch Game of Thrones. Waiting it out, looting resources anything of value while the chaos is enacted, with the bonus of a reduction in population.
Talk of revolution is a bad, bad, idea. Learn about your candidates, vote at your local level, and hold them accountable. Don't fall for "false" candidates who seem almost too good to be true. They will be. The "carrot candidate," as Bernie was, as Warren will be, is absolutely going to be part of the GOP strategy.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 21, 2018 - 05:00pm PT
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This thread has become an echo chamber, for both sides of thought, for both sides of the aisle.
That is how I have been reading it.
Round and round it goes.
An "Us against Them" mentality has taken root, and it seems my fellow liberals and progressives who are the primary "culprits ".
Not to say that the pro-Trumpers are any gauge of intelligent rhetoric.
So we can diss Trump, diss, Mueller, diss Hillary (old news), diss… take your pick. I personally think that Messi is a far better all-round footballer than Ronaldo. Just my opinion.
Where is that getting us?
To some degree I can agree, all of this dissing of Trump's supporters is counterproductive.
Look back on earlier threads (I do not care to do the research, I am lazy at times, especially at 1am with some wine on me). When that idiot Hillary called that idiot Trump's supporters deplorables", I said it was a big mistake. Look it up on the Taco Stand, it is there, somewhere.
You just do not do that, the opposition will close ranks, even I know that.
So what in the wide world of sports can get Trump out of the WH.And to get more moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats in DC?
Bitching up Trump supporters is not the way. Neither is Pelosi or friends. The Democrats need a viable alternative to the Trump shitstorm. I do not see one.
EDIT
And who am I to talk. I have so many faults, the San Andreas would be envious.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 21, 2018 - 05:25pm PT
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At this stage in the game, I do not care about Hillary, she is not POTUS, or Mueller, or Pence or Nunes, or Ryan or….
In my eyes, in my opinion, Donald Trump has no morals, no empathy for people. He is not amoral, he is immoral, He is greedy. He only cares about himself (perhaps his family some).
It is so obvious. The mob ties, long before he had dreams of being POTUS, the screwing of contractors and subcontractors (people trying to make a living). The shafting of shareholders of his failed businesses.
The numerous lawsuits. The… shall I go on.
How in the world can the people of America elect this guy? I know, but it is weird.
Like I said, forget about all the other "scum" and chancers, they are out there (Clinton, Nunes, Pence, too many to count), Donald takes the cake, and he wants to eat it too.
Instead of all of this name calling and dissing Trump or others, what can be done to turn the tide to a moderate, consensus, comprising democracy?
The Taco Stand, this thread, has shed some light, but then…. has it?
IMO, stop dissing Trump supporters, they are not going to change their mind. Instead, come up with a viable, intelligent options, a person who can lead the only other party (two-party system, weird sort of) out of this morass. Stop bitching about Trump, we all know (even his supporters I would think, to some degree), we all know he is a scumbag.
Find somebody better to replace him. That should not be so difficult to do.
EDIT
I suggest Reilly to be POTUS. He knows it all, has done it all, has been around the block, many times it seems, he even has an appreciation thread. He has rubbed shoulders with the best, and owns the Willis Wall.
Reilly for POTUS. He could not be any worse that Trump.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 21, 2018 - 05:53pm PT
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Another post (did not somebody say that posting twice or more in a row is a sign of mental illness?, Hmmm)
I sort of think that Trump, if he can bypass through his bullsh#t, scandals, distractions and idiotic tweets, he could be re-elected.
Think about that.
And who is going to challenge him.? He could actually win the popular vote, keeping with the "establishment" is against him, all the negative news coverage (from the Fake News crews), all the witch hunt, all the seemingly endless revelations that he sheds off of his back like a duck in the water.
Where then for America? What then for the US?
The Democrats have no consolidating figure, no clue, headless chickens and the Trump camp loves it.
As much as I despise Trump (not hate, you idiots, despise and hate are two different things, get an effing clue), as much as I think he is bad for America and the World, he has a good chance of re-election.
Think about it, and then cry.
EDIT
And you anti-Trumpers will not just listen to the pro-Trumpers, and vice versa.
Close minds make closed souls.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
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This is a critical point,someone has to stand up and challenge and then some have to unite behind them.
Now.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 21, 2018 - 05:58pm PT
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And who will that be Wilbeer?
I see no strength from the anti-Trump side. I could be wrong, I hope I am. I just do not see it.
That is my viewpoint looking from the outside in.
EDIT
I just do not see anything positive. All I see is negativity. I try my best to read and consider all viewpoints, albeit I consider myself a liberal, but open minded, but in the US I just see polarization.
In the EU (where I live) I see confusion. of my immediate concern, Brexit and the Irish Border, but further afield, the EU is under strain, from within and from without. Much like America in my opinion.
The sands are shifting.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 06:02pm PT
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I wonder how some claim pie in the sky when we are all subject to this daily clusterf*#k.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 21, 2018 - 06:04pm PT
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Just look at the circular firing squad here, we're screwed
Dr. Fail...you were spraying last week that NO WAY Dem's lose next election. Did you run out of meds? All of your predictions have been wrong. People like YOU are what's hosing the DEM party. Calling people you don't even know racists and Nazi's. YOU are the projectionist FASCIST!
Crazee Old Uncle Fritzee said last week he's a Republican. You must hate him too?
First, DEM's must sack Puhlosi and Shroomer. Those two are as dirty as Trump.
I'd like see this young lady run for Prez. Very solid human being
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