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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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I figured that was your passage, Another.
As I said, the condition of character issue IS something every human has....
I'll tell you this though. I got sober on the Upper West Side in NYC back in 1996. I have almost ALL the group I ended up hanging with on my Facebook. All sober still. Others from the group not on FB referred to on occasion, sober.
I learned to stick with those who were "following the simple program" and while it's work, and uncomfortable at times, it is in fact pretty simple, and the crux of it DOES lay in taking responsibility for OUR part in things. Many people don't want to do that..... You *might* gal into that category yourself! Not for me to decide on that... I need to keep my eye on my own self, and that does mean taking a look at why I tend to be critical if your posting themes.....
I cannot think of a SINGLE person who actually lived in the 12 Steps who did not stay sober. A few, over the years, came as a huge disconcerting surprise when they slipped. Guess what...when they came back, there was always an admission on where there had been that. *dishonesty.*
That's a harsh word, and maybe a different term would be used, were the Big Book written today. But in 1935, it was a different time.
As for the *numbers,* it is a fluctuating line, where going to an AA meeting and following the program lays. Someone court mandated,who has to get a signature at the meeting but can't wait to get those however many meetings done might be,but more likely is not, working the program. They'd be counted as having tried AA by your author, and having flunked out as you called it. AA itself doesn't keep track of who comes to meetings, or even keep numbers of bodies in the various meetings. But generally going to one meeting and not staying sober would not be considered *in AA.* For sure some court mandated folks do end up getting sober, and that's really great. But AA is not for those who need it, but want it.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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And Ken, you are right, and I apologize for the broad brushstroke. I myself got referred to AA by a therapist on my first or second session.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I take it all back. Detox is f*#king hard even with drugs. Tremors were so bad yesterday that I couldn’t assemble a freaking taco. Had to give up and shovel food into my mouth. Not a proud moment. Tremors are just as bad today, and cravings returned. I even went so far as to buy a nip at the liquor store, just in case. Talked with my doc after that for a half hour. I dumped out the nip and am fast tracking the next drug that I was scheduled to begin on Monday. I’ve never liked pharmies, but when you are at wits end, you’ll try anything. I really hope this works, my willpower has never been stronger than my demon. Makes me feel like a lesser human but I don’t give a f*#k anymore. Need to stop this, and I truly want it. Thanks for listening everyone. And, Another Nickname, you’re free to write whatever you want, but I’ve yet to read anything positive from you. Maybe you should work on that. You probably won’t though. Once a negativity addict, always a negativity addict, right?
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Brandon,
Once again I ask, Naloxone?
Arne
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WBraun
climber
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Yowza !!! sounds horrible Brandon.
Hang in there and you'll get over that hill ....
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Stay tough, Brandon. You've got a big fish to reel in and it's a fighter. Good thinking on your part to call your doc.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Just upped the amount of pills I’m taking. Got a prescription for Nalaxone. I hate pills.
Arne, it’s been Libitrum or some such for the last two days. Now augmented with the new one.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Naloxone is going to work. My buddy I spoke of above went into a stroke-like condition just from cutting back on the brandy enough to drive from Montana to Minnesota. When he got there he became delirious, they figured out he was in withdrawal and not having a stroke. Put him on the Naloxone and he's never looked back since. Removes all urge; apparently.
You can do this. Combine the medicine with deep resolve you want something different for your life.
Arne
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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This is probably the only thing that I’ll ever agree on with Another Nickname, that the quote below is both f*#ked and antiquated.
"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way."
Beyond that, the people at the single AA meeting I go to every week are amazing. I keep going back because of them, not for direct help.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Arne, super encouraging to hear. Taking my first dose right f*#king now.
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John M
climber
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Once a negativity addict, always a negativity addict, right?
I believe that it is possible to overcome anything, including addiction to alcohol. This is one of the areas that I have a problem with AA, in that it appears to me to subscribe to the belief that "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic". This belief is displayed in the practice of how one introduces oneself in a meeting. " HI.. my name is.... I am an alcoholic. ". Forgive me if I am wrong as I have limited experience with AA, but that is my understanding of how things work at these meetings. If it is true and people do identify themselves in this manner, then this creates a psychological feedback loop and thus a self perpetuating psychosis that makes it nearly impossible to recover from. I would prefer that people identify themselves by their name and perhaps add that they have a problem with alcohol, rather then it being their identity. Words are powerful and are creative. Saying that you have a problem rather then that you are the problem allows you to own the problem and if you own something, then you can change it. From a psychological perspective I believe that it is much easier to change the things that you own versus changing who you are.
Brandon. I believe that you can overcome this problem. I am rooting for you.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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What they did with him was gave him an expensive shot of it, once a month for three months, then put him on oral tablets. They told him the shots were the most effective.
Good luck. And I agree with John M. above. Also, don't let relapses destroy you. They are a part of recovery. Most addicts go through many relapses before they truly find their resolve. If you do relapse, pick up the pieces from where you left off and begin again. Don't throw it all in and continue it on into a bender, destroying all your efforts to date. Stay positive.
Arne
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Live like Hank!
seriously, be well. folks are watching, pulling for you.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Yeah, sorry John. You’re totally correct. I was just trying to turn Another Nickname’s words on him, albeit weakly. I guess I just don’t like someone who never has something positive to bring to the discussion. If my writing about my personal problems is making someone else’s life worse, my words will be deleted in a heartbeat. My journey is going to continue, hopefully for the better. Drugs, which I abhor for the most part, are going to be playing a central role in my life. Depression, withdrawal, and future cravings. Pills will abound and it bothers me on some level. However, what are my alternatives? Suicide because of severe depression? Suicide or alcohol poisoning from alcoholism? I say no to both. Anyone who questions my methods is free to do so, but please do so in a respectful manner. I’ve been writing with many of you for fifteen years. I both know who you are, some personally, others generally, and appreciate all of the discourse that we have shared. Let’s keep it that way, ok? I’m not going to be a dick to any of you unless you act especially dickish to me, and I’m hoping to receive the same amount of civility. Alcoholism(severe) and depression(severe) are not things to be f*#ked with or mocked. Love you ST. Brandon Mayo-
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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If anyone ever wants to shoot the sh#t about this really messed up situation, my number is the NH area code 456. 2949. I’m open to a conversation, fo real. This is the most difficult I’ve dealt with in a great long while, if ever.
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Jim Clipper
climber
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No mocking. Hang in there. Glad to see the support, even virtual. Don't forget to laugh, or maybe at least keep trying, until you feel it again.
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John M
climber
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I'm glad to hear that you are giving it a go Brandon. I believe that it will be very good for you. As for using meds/drugs to help you overcome issues, I believe that meds/drugs do have their uses. I took anti-depressants for 8 years to help myself get to a better place. I am now alcohol free and mostly med free. I still use things like over the counter pain meds. I got off anti depressants about 10 years ago. It was a difficult process, but because I had so many side affects from the meds, I felt that I had to do it. I know that JohnE who use to post here still takes anti-depressants. They seem to work for him. We are all different and our paths are different, so I believe that you need to do what works for you.
Best wishes to you mate. I hope that you keep on keeping on.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I believe that it is possible to overcome anything, including addiction to alcohol. This is one of the areas that I have a problem with AA, in that it appears to me to subscribe to the belief that "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic".
Well, it's good to be an optimist, I suppose.
However, your statement defines your lack of experience with the issue.
You would know that alcoholics are not "addicted" to alcohol. You would know that alcoholics who are not drinking are only non-drinking alcoholics. Drinking is the symptom, or perhaps better said, drinking is the self-medication response to the actual problem, but is not the underlying problem.
This is why it is very simple to get people off of alcohol. Various meds and psychotherapy are quite effective. It is very challenging to keep them off alcohol. Meds tend to be useless, psychotherapy can be very helpful. However, it has to be directed towards the underlying problem----which is often not recognized, either by the patient, nor the therapist (though skilled therapists are looking for it)
The AA point of view comes from the observation that, although a person may not have had a drink for decades, all it takes is to drink, to start the whole downward spiral again. Most who have lived or worked in this field have seen it time and again....or experienced it.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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My nephew and his wife both got a chance at life via Noxalone(sic?). One year clean for her and 2 and change for him. Before they got clean, the had bankrupted my sister(his mom) and her husband and would have had their children removed to the social services system had it not been for parents taking temporary care.
They were on heroin, but my other nephew also had that drug as alcohol withdrawal treatment.
Getting clean becomes a matter of life and death, at some point. I got sober when it was pretty much AA and that's it besides chemical detox. I'm grateful for my luck, and the way I learned how TO live through AA. But I sure don't want to be preachy to someone standing on the precipice.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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*
Good luck. And I agree with John M. above. Also, don't let relapses destroy you. They are a part of recovery. Most addicts go through many relapses before they truly find their resolve. If you do relapse, pick up the pieces from where you left off and begin again. Don't throw it all in and continue it on into a bender, destroying all your efforts to date. Stay positive.
Arne
+1
Brandon, I bet everyone who reads this thread is rooting for you, myself including..Go Brandon!
Sending Love & Paz... from Chico..
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Saludos..
Nita..
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