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richross

Trad climber

Dec 10, 2010 - 10:50pm PT

Rich in 1977.

seth kovar

climber

Reno, NV

Dec 11, 2010 - 01:59am PT

Bump

rgold

Trad climber

Poughkeepsie, NY

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2010 - 03:07am PT

The beautiful top pitch of Cruise Control, one of Romano's early routes at Millbrook and one of the two on our first card.

rgold

Trad climber

Poughkeepsie, NY

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2010 - 03:19am PT

Coming soon to a card on your harness, A Lesson in History, one of the longest routes in the Gunks, and no slouch in terms of atmosphere either:

Photo by Chris Fracchia

richross

Trad climber

Dec 11, 2010 - 11:54am PT

Bump to the top.

seth kovar

climber

Reno, NV

Dec 11, 2010 - 03:08pm PT

Bump

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Dec 11, 2010 - 03:12pm PT

Richie on Country Club Crack in 1975.

We worked on this bottom bit all day and then finally we each got it and did the climb.

I didn't even know he was in Colorado. I was soloing some easy route on Castle Rock, I was sitting on a ledge talking to some buddies when I looked down and saw this stocky guy walking around. I though "wow, that looks like Romano", I yelled down "Richie" and he looked up. We ended up climbing a fair bit together that trip. The Naked Edge had just been free climbed, I wanted to go up on it but Richie didn't think we could do it. We drank a lot of beer at the Dark Horse in Boulder...

seth kovar

climber

Reno, NV

Dec 11, 2010 - 04:19pm PT

Bump

rgold

Trad climber

Poughkeepsie, NY

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2010 - 04:33pm PT

Vulcan, I too worry about the Mac Wall crowd showing up en mass at MB. On the other hand, I'd be pretty psyched to see most of those I've corresponded with on SuperTopo there. In any case, I think we've been careful to keep the adventure level high by showing where the routes go without loading up on beta. The cards don't indicate where to belay and don't indicate where the cruxes are, they just show where to go. There is less information there than guidebooks provide for almost any other area, other than, say, the schematic sketches one has for some of the lesser-traveled regions. It is absolutely nothing like, like, well, like Super Topo.

In any case, since you have 25 years in the Gunks, you know Millbrook is pretty well defended. It is unrelentingly steep, the rock can be chossy, especially at the beginning of routes, and run-outs are inevitable. There's an hour walk in and out, climbs are reached by rappel to a ledge midway up the crag, and any accident requiring a rescue would entail a substantial and prolonged technical effort that probably would stretch until well after dark.

There's a whole segment of the nouveau-trad climbing population in the Gunks that just isn't going to go out there, not with hundreds of routes just a few steps off the carriage road and enough beta in books and the internet to get you half-way around the world, never mind about up 200 feet of cliff.

As for not belonging there if you can't find the route, I think that's a bit strong. For one thing, some of the routes we are working up aren't in any guidebook. Basically, Rich and a few others at most know about them, and Rich is comfortable letting a bigger circle of enthusiasts know about them. For another thing, current guidebook information is in many cases either outdated, inaccurate, or both, as well as being extremely hard to follow in many cases. I have basically double your years of Gunks experience, and there are quite a few Millbrook routes I've had a ton of trouble finding, and succeeded only after personal conversations with Rich.

As for what Rich does or does not want, I'm sure that is a complicated issue and I am not going to presume to speak for him. I'm sure he does have some concerns, as do we all, but I can also assure you that we would not have undertaken this project without his blessing. And part of the point of it all is that by virtue of sharing his extensive knowledge, he isn't just putting out his hand for help, he is giving back to the community one of the most precious things anyone has to offer, the knowledge of things they are passionate about.

For all these reasons, we are comfortable with what we are doing, and hope that you too will be able to find peace with the idea.

rgold

Trad climber

Poughkeepsie, NY

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2010 - 05:02pm PT

Edit: Vulcan nuked the post that this responded to, but I'm going to leave the response anyway since it may address thoughts others are having.

If you spend some time looking around the internet (an activity I can't recommend), you'll find few people who have argued as long and as hard as I have for keeping places like Lost City undocumented (a policy which I think has nonetheless failed in its intent, but that is another issue altogether).

Unlike many people, I have come to realize that I have absolutely no problem about "secret" crags. No one is obliged to share information, and no one is entitled to the information others have sweated to gather. But Millbrook is not a secret, nor has anyone ever suggested it should be. It has been documented since the very first Gunks guidebook. The reason the population is so low there compared to the Trapps and Near Trapps is the accessibility combined with the seriousness of the place. In any case, we are making no attempt at anything like comprehensive coverage, just a few routes.

Vulcan

Sport climber

Dec 11, 2010 - 05:03pm PT

RGold
Post deleted. Your right.
Does Rich have the same mailing address
that he did 10 years ago.
Check will be in the mail.
Also the 1 hour walk in can
be reduced to 20.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Dec 11, 2010 - 05:22pm PT

This kind of story makes me sad and angry at the same time.

This is so easy to avoid. C'mon people THINK!
Climbing is fun, but it is fun because it is serious.
Do we need cards on people's harnesses reminding them to tie in?

jstan

climber

Dec 11, 2010 - 05:55pm PT

This is the first reference I have seen as regards how the Lost City policy played out. When I first decided I opposed guidebook coverage of the area I thought two benefits would accrue even when (not if) the basic information was generally available.

1. There would be some diversity. Not a uniform experience.
2. People would have occasion to talk to each other. That is always good.

As you remember that was part of my argument we should just stop at 5.10. We all have as much fun arguing about comparative difficulty between climbs as we do climbing them. Grading things to the level 5.13e- R/X has not changed the arguing in the slightest. Think how bad it would be if everyone were given a special induction physical with measurement of their dimensions and was then provided a plastic card with a lookup table showing how all the grades should be adjusted for each person, based upon their physical test.

There is no better experience than that of having no information while standing below some rock. When approached that way, no matter success or failure, it is all fun.

If we had our heads on straight we would let every ascent be a first ascent.

Whymper has been dead a long time.

Why do we refuse to let the little bugger go?

Vulcan

Sport climber

Dec 11, 2010 - 07:09pm PT

let's get this back on track.
send some $$$$ for Rich.
no more off topic stuff.

phylp

Trad climber

Millbrae, CA

Dec 11, 2010 - 08:16pm PT

We don't climb at the Gunks but would like to make a small donation to help towards medical expenses.
A Paypal acct would be great. It only takes 5 minutes to set one up...

seth kovar

climber

Reno, NV

Dec 11, 2010 - 11:08pm PT

Bump

rgold

Trad climber

Poughkeepsie, NY

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2010 - 12:07am PT

Do we need cards on people's harnesses reminding them to tie in?

No, we don't Ron. The cards we created don't have a single word about this. Perhaps you have misunderstood the point?