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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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"do the right thing with that
there scripture."
Just because people can take it wrong, it doesn't mean that God is wrong!
Edit; Thou shalt not kill?
I'm a slave to the grind!
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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who's to say who's wrong?
do you condone slavery?
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.
We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Jesus Cleanses the Temple
And they came to Jerusalem. And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who sold and those who bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. And he would not allow anyone to carry anything through the temple. And he was teaching them and saying to them, “Is it not written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations’? But you have made it a den of robbers.” And the chief priests and the scribes heard it and were seeking a way to destroy him, for they feared him, because all the crowd was astonished at his teaching. And when evening came they went out of the city.
Edit; "but I don't know exactly where it was "his" house"
If Jesus is (God) the Son, He was talking about the Temple where this took place!
Isaiah 56:7, these I will bring to my holy mountain,
and make them joyful in my house of prayer;
their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
will be accepted on my altar;
for my house shall be called a house of prayer
for all peoples.”
Jeremiah 7:11, Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I myself have seen it, declares the Lord.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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It looks like more then 20% off?
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Well virgin birth, healed the sick, raised the dead, forgave sins, and resurrected from the dead, sounds like God to me! It's not insane if it's true?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Leb wrote: "How can you possibly "know" something like that?"
The whole business about "knowing" is an interesting study, and traditinal epistimology goes a long ways in exploring this question.
We tend to consider "knowing" in terms of our evaluating minds, but there are other modes of knowing that are almost certainly more reliable.
Take, for instance, what I saw today while out on a ride. A dog recognized his master from about fifty yerds away. Without any smell or sound or other close sense data, the dog simply "knew" that girl was his master. Dogs can often exhibit this kind of knowing and how often are they wrong?
JL
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WBraun
climber
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how often are they wrong?
When you dangle a big steak in front of them.
A snake can be charmed by herbs and mantras.
But a human snake .............
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Can I get a witness...
Jesus Heals a Man Born Blind
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” Having said these things, he spat on the ground and made mud with the saliva. Then he anointed the man's eyes with the mud and said to him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing.
The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar were saying, “Is this not the man who used to sit and beg?” Some said, “It is he.” Others said, “No, but he is like him.” He kept saying, “I am the man.” So they said to him, “Then how were your eyes opened?” He answered, “The man called Jesus made mud and anointed my eyes and said to me, ‘Go to Siloam and wash.’ So I went and washed and received my sight.” They said to him, “Where is he?” He said, “I do not know.”
They brought to the Pharisees the man who had formerly been blind. Now it was a Sabbath day when Jesus made the mud and opened his eyes. So the Pharisees again asked him how he had received his sight. And he said to them, “He put mud on my eyes, and I washed, and I see.” Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.” But others said, “How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?” And there was a division among them. So they said again to the blind man, “What do you say about him, since he has opened your eyes?” He said, “He is a prophet.”
The Jews did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight, until they called the parents of the man who had received his sight and asked them, “Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How then does he now see?” His parents answered, “We know that this is our son and that he was born blind. But how he now sees we do not know, nor do we know who opened his eyes. Ask him; he is of age. He will speak for himself.” (His parents said these things because they feared the Jews, for the Jews had already agreed that if anyone should confess Jesus to be Christ, he was to be put out of the synagogue.) Therefore his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.”
So for the second time they called the man who had been blind and said to him, “Give glory to God. We know that this man is a sinner.” He answered, “Whether he is a sinner I do not know. One thing I do know, that though I was blind, now I see.” They said to him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?” He answered them, “I have told you already, and you would not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become his disciples?” And they reviled him, saying, “You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses. We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this man, we do not know where he comes from.” The man answered, “Why, this is an amazing thing! You do not know where he comes from, and yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him. Never since the world began has it been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.” They answered him, “You were born in utter sin, and would you teach us?” And they cast him out.
Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” He answered, “And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?” Jesus said to him, “You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you.” He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him. Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.” Some of the Pharisees near him heard these things, and said to him, “Are we also blind?” Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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I'm barking up the wrong tree but how about when dogs or cats find their masters after they move or are lost far from home, wow!
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dirtbag
climber
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The New Testament is hearsay. No one writing it saw or knew Jesus (if Jesus existed).
Entire books have been edited out early on. Many of these books contain passages conflicting with some of the parts that remained.
Pretty dubious source there...
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dirtbag
climber
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Yep Lois. Just goes to show, people believe what they want to believe.
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MH2
climber
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We tend to consider "knowing" in terms of our evaluating minds, but there are other modes of knowing that are almost certainly more reliable.
a nursing version of this notion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_E._Rogers
I would rather ask Raymond Smullyan's empirical epistemologist, but he is unfortunately still theoretical.
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WBraun
climber
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And you're all experts on what is "Real"
You don't even know where you came from nor who you are and where you're going .......
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Have you read the Bible? The Old Testament foretold of the Messiah, the New Testament, is of the Messiah. The Jews still as a whole don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, but it tells of many prophecies that only Jesus fulfilled. It's happened in spite of it all.
If there is a God and He wanted to reveal himself He could have done it a lot of different ways, but if you look at Jesus closely, the way the Bible that we have says it happened, it rings true, He had to have a virgin birth or He would just be a man only!
Without Jesus standing in front of you how could you know for sure?
Well like with Heads, you "X" um, paste um, then smell um, then test um!
Read the word, live it, and trust it, trust and obey, there's no other way!
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dirtbag
climber
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Uh-huh--still doesn't address the hearsay or editing problems.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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You don't even know where you came from nor who you are and where you're going .......
You sure about that Werner? It really does seem to me that I just came from the basement -- I was down there to get a glass of beer -- and as to where I'm going, well, once I finish the beer I'm going upstairs to bed.
You and Gobee and Klimmer et al can ramble on about the supernatural metaphysics of it till the sun goes nova if you want to, but most of the rest of us have a pretty good idea where we came from and where we're going. Whether it's just now (from the basement, to bed) or on the big scale (from the womb, to the grave), it just isn't that mysterious.
There are mysteries. Oh, yes. But where I came from and where I'm going aren't among them.
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dirtbag
climber
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It's Losus, the Loissiah!
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