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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Feb 21, 2015 - 07:35am PT
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Feb 21, 2015 - 09:11am PT
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NWO II
do you believe that the climate is changing?
do you think that is being caused by excess human greenhouse gas emissions?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Feb 21, 2015 - 09:12am PT
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Chemtrails are mainly the same chemical well documented to cause thousands of deaths every year. Dihydrogen Monoxide aka Hydric acid. Dangerous stuff.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Feb 21, 2015 - 09:18am PT
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Where'd The Chief go? I just found a cool quote that made me think of him:
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
-― Socrates
Thanks for reviving this thread from page four, with a gratuitous jab.
Love the irony. :-)
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2015 - 10:58am PT
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The Chief, look up the Hearland Institute and their spin on climate science.
What is the official GOP's stance on climate change?
What is the progressive stance?
What side aligns with the scientific findings?
Don't confuse facts with slander.
[And damn, I broke my promise to myself...]
EdT, it's not slander to point out that someone turns to insults when they are shown to be wrong in a debate.
Thanks for playing.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Feb 21, 2015 - 11:22am PT
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I dont believe in climate change....I haven't worn a jacket since 2011!
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Feb 21, 2015 - 04:42pm PT
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The global warming nutjobs keep assuring us that the atmosphere
is so warm that snow is a thing of the past.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mass-barn-collapse-kills-2-horses-injures-5-article-1.2123671
"There have been more than 100 full or partial roof collapses across
Massachusetts in the last week,Feb 20, 2015; but none more tragic than at
Bobby's Ranch, a riding stable about 35 miles northwest of Boston.
Recent storms have buried the Boston area under more than 8 feet of snow.
The sheet metal barn at the 40-year-old ranch gave way at about 11 a.m."
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Feb 21, 2015 - 09:40pm PT
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How will the deniers deny that one?
Some quotes from that article:
“The whole doubt-mongering strategy relies on creating the impression of scientific debate,” said Naomi Oreskes, a historian of science at Harvard University and the co-author of “Merchants of Doubt,” a book about such campaigns. “Willie Soon is playing a role in a certain kind of political theater.”
Environmentalists have long questioned Dr. Soon’s work, and his acceptance of funding from the fossil-fuel industry was previously known. But the full extent of the links was not; the documents show that corporate contributions were tied to specific papers and were not disclosed, as required by modern standards of publishing.
“What it shows is the continuation of a long-term campaign by specific fossil-fuel companies and interests to undermine the scientific consensus on climate change,” said Kert Davies, executive director of the Climate Investigations Center, a group funded by foundations seeking to limit the risks of climate change.
Charles R. Alcock, director of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center, acknowledged on Friday that Dr. Soon had violated the disclosure standards of some journals.
“I think that’s inappropriate behavior,” Dr. Alcock said. “This frankly becomes a personnel matter, which we have to handle with Dr. Soon internally.”
Dr. Soon is employed by the Smithsonian Institution, which jointly sponsors the astrophysics center with Harvard.
“I am aware of the situation with Willie Soon, and I’m very concerned about it,” W. John Kress, interim under secretary for science at the Smithsonian in Washington, said on Friday. “We are checking into this ourselves.”
at least $409,000 of Dr. Soon’s funding in the past decade came from Southern Company Services, a subsidiary of the Southern Company, based in Atlanta. Southern is one of the largest utility holding companies in the country, with huge investments in coal-burning power plants. The company has spent heavily over many years to lobby against greenhouse-gas regulations in Washington.
Dr. Soon also received at least $230,000 from the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation. However, other companies and industry groups that once supported Dr. Soon, including Exxon Mobil and the American Petroleum Institute, appear to have eliminated their grants to him in recent years.
As the oil-industry contributions fell, Dr. Soon started receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars through DonorsTrust, an organization based in Alexandria, Va., that accepts money from donors who wish to remain anonymous, then funnels it to various conservative causes.
Though often described on conservative news programs as a “Harvard astrophysicist,” Dr. Soon is not an astrophysicist and has never been employed by Harvard. He is a part-time employee of the Smithsonian Institution with a doctoral degree in aerospace engineering. He has received little federal research money over the past decade and is thus responsible for bringing in his own funds, including his salary.
Though he has little formal training in climatology, Dr. Soon has for years published papers trying to show that variations in the sun’s energy can explain most recent global warming. His thesis is that human activity has played a relatively small role in causing climate change.
Many experts in the field say that Dr. Soon uses out-of-date data, publishes spurious correlations between solar output and climate indicators, and does not take account of the evidence implicating emissions from human behavior in climate change.
Gavin A. Schmidt, head of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies in Manhattan, a NASA division that studies climate change, said that the sun had probably accounted for no more than 10 percent of recent global warming and that greenhouse gases produced by human activity explained most of it.
“The science that Willie Soon does is almost pointless,” Dr. Schmidt said.
The Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, whose scientists focus largely on understanding distant stars and galaxies, routinely distances itself from Dr. Soon’s findings. The Smithsonian has also published a statement accepting the scientific consensus on climate change.
Dr. Soon has found a warm welcome among politicians in Washington and state capitals who try to block climate action. United States Senator James M. Inhofe, an Oklahoma Republican who claims that climate change is a global scientific hoax, has repeatedly cited Dr. Soon’s work over the years.
In a Senate debate last month, Mr. Inhofe pointed to a poster with photos of scientists questioning the climate-change consensus, including Dr. Soon. “These are scientists that cannot be challenged,” the senator said. A spokeswoman for the senator said Friday that he was traveling and could not be reached for comment.
As of late last week, most of the journals in which Dr. Soon’s work had appeared were not aware of the newly disclosed documents. The Climate Investigations Center is planning to notify them over the coming week. Several journals advised of the situation by The New York Times said they would look into the matter.
Robert J. Strangeway, the editor of a journal that published three of Dr. Soon’s papers, said that editors relied on authors to be candid about any conflicts of interest. “We assume that when people put stuff in a paper, or anywhere else, they’re basically being honest,” said Dr. Strangeway, editor of the Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics.
Dr. Oreskes, the Harvard science historian, said that academic institutions and scientific journals had been too lax in recent decades in ferreting out dubious research created to serve a corporate agenda.
She added that Dr. Soon’s papers omitting disclosure of his corporate funding should be retracted by the journals that published them.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Feb 21, 2015 - 09:54pm PT
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Feb 22, 2015 - 09:22am PT
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Feb 22, 2015 - 09:36am PT
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what's the difference between weather and climate Sketch?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Feb 22, 2015 - 11:48am PT
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Weather applies to below average temperatures.
Climate applies to above average temperatures, tornadoes, hurricanes and droughts.
Climate applies to multi-year temperature trends... but only if the trend is up.
Simply put:
Climate applies to conditions that support "the consensus".
Weather applies to conditions that do not support "the consensus."
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Feb 22, 2015 - 11:50am PT
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astounding.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Feb 22, 2015 - 11:58am PT
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From NASA's What's the Difference Between Weather and Climate?
The difference between weather and climate is a measure of time. Weather is what conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time, and climate is how the atmosphere "behaves" over relatively long periods of time.
When we talk about climate change, we talk about changes in long-term averages of daily weather. Today, children always hear stories from their parents and grandparents about how snow was always piled up to their waists as they trudged off to school. Children today in most areas of the country haven't experienced those kinds of dreadful snow-packed winters, except for the Northeastern U.S. in January 2005. The change in recent winter snows indicate that the climate has changed since their parents were young.
LOL
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Feb 22, 2015 - 01:37pm PT
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From the NOAA NCDC 1997 State of The Climate:
The global average temperature of 62.45 degrees Fahrenheit for 1997 was the warmest year on record
From the NOAA NCDC 2014 State of the Climate:
The year 2014 was the warmest year across global land and ocean surfaces since records began in 1880. The annually-averaged temperature was 0.69°C (1.24°F) above the 20th century average of 13.9°C (57.0°F)
57.0 + 1.24 = 58.24
58.24 < 62.45
To those who read way too much into my posts (you know who you are), I'm not implying anything conspiratorial or that 2014 was 4 degrees cooler than 1997.
To me it just looks like an embarrassing mistake. Or perhaps they changed their baseline for valid, scientific reasons. I'm just curious.
Maybe Chiloe or Ed can explain this discrepancy.
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