Huge 8.9 quake plus tsunami - Japan

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mynameismud

climber

backseat

May 26, 2011 - 09:11pm PT

http://stocktradereview.com/world_outlook/fukushima-a-stake-through-nuclear-industrys-heart/
(we can only hope)
Despite the managed media campaign by Tokyo Electric Company, the Japanese government and nuclear industry flacks worldwide, the 11 March 9.0 on the Richter scale earthquake, followed by a tsunami that off-lined TEPCO’s six reactor Daiichi Fukushima nuclear power complex represents a global mortal blow to the nuclear power industry, which had been optimistic of a renaissance following worldwide concerns about global warming. While TEPCO’s PR spin doctors along with Japanese government flacks will continue to parsimoniously dribble out information about the real situation at the stricken reactors while blandly assuring the Japanese population and the world that all is well even as nuclear lobbyists bleat “it can’t happen here,” all but the most obtuse are beginning to realize that catastrophes at nuclear power facilities, whether man-made (Chernobyl) or natural (Fukushima) have radioactive pollution consequences of potentially global significance.

It is the long-term consequences of the dispersal of radioactive reactor core fissionable material and, in the case of Fukushima, spent reactor fuel, that no amount of spin doctoring can diminish, and far from being environmental propaganda from eco-terrorists, has been a concern of specialists for decades, but those voices rarely reach the mainstream media, many of which are owned by massive corporations deeply invested in the revival of nuclear power.

It is time that some of those voices move mainstream. Admiral Hyman G. Rickover, known as the “father of the U.S. nuclear navy,” sheparded the U.S. Navy into the nuclear age, attracting the best and the brightest (including a future president, Jimmy Carter) around him to advance nuclear propulsion of such a quality engineering level that the Navy has a perfect safety record, a legacy of Rickover’s 63 year career. Nonetheless Rickover remained doubtful about nuclear power, delivering “On the hazards of nuclear power. Testimony to Congress” on 28 January 1982. His insights are worth quoting in detail.

“I’ll be philosophical. Until about two billion years ago, it was impossible to have any life on earth; that is, there was so much radiation on earth you couldn’t have any life – fish or anything. Gradually, about two billion years ago, the amount of radiation on this planet-and probably in the entire system-reduced and made it possible for some form of life to begin… Now when we go back to using nuclear power, we are creating something which nature tried to destroy to make life possible… Every time you produce radiation, you produce something that has a certain half-life, in some cases for billions of years. I think the human race is going to wreck itself, and it is important that we get control of this horrible force and try to eliminate it… I do not believe that nuclear power is worth it if it creates radiation. Then you might ask me why do I have nuclear powered ships. That is a necessary evil. I would sink them all. Have I given you an answer to your question?”

........

mynameismud

climber

backseat

May 26, 2011 - 09:13pm PT

One more for the day.

"Finally, for those with the courage to face the visual evidence of the consequences of future generations of nuclear reactor accidents, one need go no further than Paul Fusco’s photographs and 11 videos of the children subsequently born within Chernobyl’s radiation zone in Ukraine and Belarus. One can be seen here at YouTube:"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAxTZD9sk40&playnext=1&list=PLEACAB31F38619908

"Is this the future the world truly wants? What part of the evidence above does the nuclear power industry not understand? The answer is simple – money, the trillions already invested over the last five decades in the industry and the potential loss of trillions more if the global nuclear industry is shuttered. As Fukushima continues its slow radioactive bleed-out, one of the few certainties is that we’re likely to see many more images like Fusco’s in the years to come."

Jan

Mountain climber

Okinawa, Japan

May 27, 2011 - 04:36pm PT

This was posted on NHK's website today. What they don't mention is that they have two days or less to get as much radiation nailed down as possible since a very large typhoon is headed our way. I can hear the winds roaring to the south of me already and we are on lockdown for the next 2 1/2 days.

Antiscattering chemical to be sprayed on buildings

The operator of the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant will spray an anti-scattering agent onto its buildings to prevent radioactive dust from spreading.

Radioactive dust appears to be scattered on the reactor buildings and turbine buildings due to the explosions that occurred in March. The containment work is scheduled to begin on Friday. The chemical hardening agent selected for the task is usually used to contain asbestos.

Tokyo Electric Power Company says it will use two fire engines to spray the chemical onto building walls.

However, TEPCO says it cannot spray all the walls because debris still blocks access to some areas.

Since April, a chemical hardening agent has been sprayed over the ground and debris to prevent radioactive dust from being blown away.

However, the chemical won't be applied to all areas because if it gets inside the pool that contains spent fuel rods it might interfere with the circulation of cooling water.

Prevention of radioactive substances from spreading to the air and ground is one of the main goals of the utility's plan to stabilize the reactors.

Typhoon Songda which currently has winds gusting to 145 mph, is already sucking water westward across Japan as can be seen from this satellite photo.

The forcasted typhoon track will bring much heavier winds across Fukushima and because typhoons rotate in a counter clockwise direction, has the potential to spread airborne radioactivity the length of mainland Japan.

rrrADAM

Trad climber

LBMF

May 27, 2011 - 08:14pm PT

@rrradam
from you post

So, to give a reasonable prediction of how I think things will unfold... I believe that after events are brought under control, and many surveys and samples of areas around the plant, within a few months people will be allowed to return with no restrictions on anything

So by under control you mean after a decade or so?

Not a few Months.

Reading comprehension fail...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1436585&tn=2020#msg1511685

Note that there are TWO there, and the second is even in bold. But then again, you prefer to cherry pick, right? (I.e., ignore the second)

As to "brought under control", this isn't still unfolding at the pace it was just a month ago, and will be in cold shut down by the end of the year, as per the current progections. Note that they will be cleaning up the surrounding area before cold shut down... They have already been working on decontamination of areas, so it's not like it's gonna start AFTER cold shut down, but is already ongoing.

Also... As per the contamination detected in the ocean... The US nuclear bomb tests at Bikini alone contaminated the oceans much more than Fuku ever will. I'm not saying it isn't bad, just trying to put it into context, as it is a fact that we wilfully performed those tests, and spread MUCH more contamination... But some think Fuku spells the end of the world or ocean? People now dive at the very spot those tests were performed, diving the wrecks of ther NAVY ships sunk in those tests.

Again... Not saying it isn't bad, just trying to put it in context.

mynameismud

climber

backseat

May 27, 2011 - 08:24pm PT

I cut and pasted from your the post you provided a few posts above. That had no bold in it.

rrrADAM

Trad climber

LBMF

May 27, 2011 - 08:27pm PT

I cut and pasted from your the post you provided a few posts above. That had no bold in it.

Then VERY much reading comprehension fail, as that is a link to my last post in this thread (1 page back, not a 'few posts above') that had those words, and it does have bold.

So, because you can't even see the bold, much less understand the words, that is where the VERY comes in.

rrrADAM

Trad climber

LBMF

May 27, 2011 - 08:36pm PT

Addam, don't get on My case
i just posted the link that said what you wanted to look at, I didn't say I beleived IT
No wonder people here are giving you sh#t, you are alittle touchy

I wasn;t getting on your case, Dr... I was pointing out that the link you provided ultimately went to an article that in no way said what you said it did. And thus, asked if you even bothered to read it.

Fritz

Trad climber

Choss Creek, ID

May 31, 2011 - 10:22am PT

By WSJ MarketWatch

May 29, 2011, 6:46 p.m. EDT

Tepco can't stabilize reactors by year-end: report

Tokyo Electric Power Co. (9501.TO) is coming to the view that it will be impossible to stabilize the crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant by the end of this year, possibly affecting the timing for the government to consider the return of evacuees to their homes near the plant, Kyodo News reported, citing senior company officials.

The revelation that meltdowns had occurred at the Nos. 1 to 3 reactors at the plant, most likely with breaches to pressure vessels encasing nuclear fuel, has led the officials to believe that "there will be a major delay to work" to contain the situation, one of them said.

The plant operator, known as TEPCO, announced on April 17 its road map for bringing the troubled reactors at the plant into a stably cooled condition called "cold shutdown" in six to nine months.

Even though the No. 1 reactor was later found to have gone through the critical melting of nuclear fuel, the utility said as recently as May 17 that it did not see a need to revise its road map.

But "the nine months is just a target deadline for which we are making efforts," a senior TEPCO official said, indicating that the likely delay would affect the plan to review the evacuation of local people, which the government is hoping to implement once the reactors are brought under control.

TEPCO was taking steps until early May to fill containment vessels housing the pressure vessels with water so the fuel could be cooled.

But on May 12, it was revealed that a meltdown had occurred at the No. 1 reactor, with breaches to its pressure vessel, forcing the utility to abandon the idea of filling its containment vessel with water and instead plan a new cooling system that would recycle radioactive water accumulating in the reactor's building.

Given that the contaminated water has leaked from the No. 1 reactor's containment vessel, a TEPCO official handling the technical aspects of the crisis, said, "We must first determine where it is leaking and seal it."

The official added, "Unless we understand the extent of the damage, we don't even know how long that work alone would take," noting the need for one or two months more than previously thought to establish an entirely new cooling system.

Another senior TEPCO official said workers tackling the crisis at the plant are likely to have to give up their New Year's holidays, saying that work has not been proceeding at an equal pace at the three troubled reactors.

The March 11 earthquake and tsunami, which devastated the coastal areas of northeastern Japan, crippled the nuclear plant in Fukushima Prefecture, triggering massive leaks of radioactive materials and widespread radiation fears.

Fritz

Trad climber

Choss Creek, ID

May 31, 2011 - 10:24am PT

By Sarah Turner, MarketWatch
Germany will close down all of its nuclear power plants by 2022, according to reports out Monday, as fallout from Japan’s disaster continues more than two months after the event.

“There will be no clause for revision,” Germany’s Environment Minister Norbert Rottgen said, according to a BBC report.

The German government had been reviewing the role of nuclear power in the country’s electricity needs after an earthquake and tsunami crippled Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex in March.

Jan

Mountain climber

Okinawa, Japan

May 31, 2011 - 10:52am PT

The main islands of Japan got lucky with Typhoon Songda which battered Okinawa but dissipated in the cooler ocean waters up north before it reached Fukushima.

Not that they don't have troubles enough. Today there was a small explosion and oil spill into the ocean by the #'s 4 and 5 reactors which were shut down before the earthquake and tsunami. Also, they are now admitting that at least two workers have exceeded maximum safe radiation doses and at least 70 more are waiting to be tested.

mynameismud

climber

backseat

May 31, 2011 - 11:04am PT

Radioactive soil in pockets of areas near Japan’s crippled nuclear plant have reached the same level as Chernobyl, where a “dead zone” remains 25 years after the reactor in the former Soviet Union exploded.

Soil samples in areas outside the 20-kilometer (12 miles) exclusion zone around the Fukushima plant measured more than 1.48 million becquerels a square meter, the standard used for evacuating residents after the Chernobyl acciden

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-30/japan-risks-chernobyl-like-dead-zone-as-fukushima-soil-radiation-soars.html

mynameismud

climber

backseat

Jun 2, 2011 - 11:10am PT

Dang conspiracy theorists will not stop.

Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco), only recently confirmed that three of the nuclear reactors suffered complete meltdowns within hours of the earthquake, with reactor Units 2 and 3 suffering the most damage. The containment vessels of those two reactors also developed 7-10 centimeter holes within hours of the March 11 quake, which explains why workers were unable to maintain water levels. This shocking news comes after weeks of Tepco repeatedly denying the severity of the accident, followed by slow-coming admissions that this already devastating situation is, indeed, worse than most previous calculations

http://blog.cleanenergy.org/2011/06/02/june-2-japan-update/

Do not forget. Solar is very very bad cuz it is dangerous and expensive.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jun 2, 2011 - 12:09pm PT

Solar is the worst!! I mean it's just a giant nuke in the sky and it's for sure going to melt down (or supernova, same diff) some day and then we're all toast!!!!

Ever leave an ice cream cone out in the sun? The sun is bad ass!!!

Now Adam, you asked me for documentation regarding the NRC's expectations for containment vessels not failing. I'm not trying to ignore that but have decided to cause I don't have time and energy to dig it up (I tried but I didn't find clear info)

Peace

Karl

mynameismud

climber

backseat

Jun 2, 2011 - 02:15pm PT

We have a failure of control of big business desires to never stop making money, not a failure of atomic power. A failure to control the politicians who allow big business to do whatever they want, so long as the campaign donations come rolling in.

This will not be fixed in our life time.

I think it is easier to build a small safe nuclear plant that is suspended in the ocean.

I think there should be less dependency on Nukes and more on Solar. I doubt you and I will ever agree on that. The pro Nuke crowd will never see it. I am not against Nuclear Plants, if they can provide a clear plan to manage it safely from cradle to grave. Currently they have not been able to show they can do that.

We have Mark 1 plants in the U.S.A. that are running and have multiple safety concerns. Those plants will not be shut down or fixed anytime soon.

If you take a close look at the Military in regards to waste they do not have a stellar record. The Military has a super fund site, about 1 mile from where I sit.

The problem with Nukes is your going all in hoping a corner case never happens.

mynameismud

climber

backseat

Jun 2, 2011 - 03:42pm PT

I am familiar with the Idaho Navy site. My roots are in Idaho and I have generations of family in the Navy.

When I made the statement I was referring to subs. I think it is easier to build a safe Nuclear plant in a sub than a large one on land.

I also think Solar is less limited than most think. I was very skeptical until I lived in a house that was all solar. We had more electricity than we could use. Every individual that I know that has a solar installation produces more electricity than they use and none of them have installations that cover their entire house. Typically the installation covers less than 1/4 of their structure.

If every viable structure in the U.S.A. was covered with panels most electrical needs would be met. Throw in a solar farm here and there for good measure. Vast land resources are not needed. I am not saying it will 100% cover all needs. I am saying it can cover most needs. Wind, hydro, Geothermal, biomass, Nukes can pick up the rest.

For every point in efficiency that solar gains there is a 20% decrease in cost. At this time no other source can match those numbers.

TomCochrane

Trad climber

Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay

Jun 2, 2011 - 03:51pm PT

Again you are missing the point regarding private local solar power installations.

A few solar panels and batteries and a yacht style wind generator will take you off the power grid.

The owners of the power grid will not encourage you to do that.

Big business wants to monopolize all resources and keep you dependent upon paying their bills.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jun 2, 2011 - 07:22pm PT

Germany commits to giving up Nuclear Power for good.

Of course they are a backward nation of superstitious savages....

But you can bet they will be researching the energy technology with a vengeance now.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2011/0530/Germany-turns-back-on-nuclear-power

In a move officials called "irreversible," German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s center-right coalition agreed Monday to phase out nuclear power by 2022, setting Europe’s biggest economy the formidable challenge of finding a replacement for 20 percent of its current energy supply.

Japan's nuclear troubles extend into Russia
Tepco's handling of Japan's nuclear crisis under severe scrutiny
Despite recent alerts, nuclear regulators give an 'all-safe'
The government's decision comes after a 17-member ethics panel appointed after the Fukushima nuclear accident recommended giving Germany a "10-year exit corridor" to change its ways and go nuclear free. The panel, which included a Roman Catholic bishop and industrial and scientific leaders, called for keeping the seven oldest nuclear plants shut down after the Japan disaster off the grid and gradually switching off the other 10. But their report, released today, said weening Germany off nuclear power won't be successful "without efforts of all segments of the political, business and societal world."

"It has to happen sooner or later," says Miranda Schreurs, chair of the Brussels-based European Environmental Sustainable Development Advisor Council, a network of advisors appointed by 16 European countries.

"If Germany does it first, it will become the technological leader globally, it will be the country that others turn to for advice, for equipment, it can set the standards for others.This decision gives Germany planning certainty and stability: If you know that you have a 10 year window to replace 20 percent of your electricity supply, it gives society a chance to come to terms with the decision, to start thinking about it."

Last fall, Merkel had called for Germany to get 80 percent of its electricity from renewable sources by 2050. Today's announcement increases the pressure to make that happen faster than planned.