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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2015 - 07:19am PT
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It's not a question of individual choice.
While individual choice can still play a hand in the game, it really is up to the governments and corporations who make policy regarding energy use and distribution to begin working together; they need to begin implementing a move towards a "greener" way of living.
Solar can be a great player in this, and it's my belief that governments should be subsidizing solar where it will work best. The energy companies fight solar, though, because it does not work as a centralized power plant, where they make their money.
At some point we have to realize that our economic model comes secondary to a healthy planet.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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It's hard for the Chief to juggle multiple concepts.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Despite whatever he drives, Schwarzenegger net CO2 footprint is negative, given his influence on CO2 policy.
Is this the new rationale for environmentalist hypocrisy?
I might buy it, if these public figures took whatever action was necessary to have a carbon neutral footprint.
Using their advocacy to justify their being the top 0.1% of polluters on the planet is the epitome of elitist hypocrisy.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2015 - 08:29am PT
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Using their advocacy to justify their being the top 0.1% of polluters on the planet is the epitome of elitist hypocrisy.
Top 0.1% of polluters, you mean Arnold puts out as much CO2 as a coal plant?? Deepwater Horizon, Bhopal, Valdez? Wow, he sure is bad.
[Edited to fix the names of these environmental disasters.]
Let me get this straight. Anybody who has a positive carbon footprint is not allowed to voice an opinion on global warming?
Perfect, the deniers can have their own hen party.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Sure, Sketch and maybe Schwarzenegger should be living in a cave, to satisfy the 'skeptics'.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Chiloe, do you know the family tree of that puppet? It could be handy for those that want to read the thread from beginning to end.
The short version, EdwardT = Sketch. The long version I don't have the heart for just now.
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WBraun
climber
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maybe Schwarzenegger should be living in a cave
He is living in a cave.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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My dispatches are from fantasyland Ed?
What about yours. As far as I can tell your dispatches always follow in lockstep with the party line and addressing the issues (scandals) of the day in a losing defensive posture.
Check out the following linked paper on the deviation between the real data and adjusted temp records. These guys noticed the one way disparity by 2011, before a few other generations of adjustment schemes.
http://www.itia.ntua.gr/getfile/1212/2/documents/EGU2012-956-1.pdf
The IPCC needed a powerful talking point to go into the 2015 conference. Their naive dreams of unity behind the criminal enterprise will be dashed again. It seems that representatives of more than half the workd's population will only pay lip service to the grand scheme as far as helping the west shoot its own feet.
Get real guys. If you want less polutants go with what we already have on the shelf: abundant NG reserves and new generation nuclear while the huge sums flushed down the toilet of CAGW is diverted to national research programs for viable non-energy starving alternatives.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I'm too busy right now to read another of your dubious papers, rick
Perhaps I'll glance at it later
What blog told you to look at that one in particular?
Knowing that might save me some time responding to your ignorant silliness from your Fantasyland.
Too bad you can't get vaccinated against ignorance, you caught a bad case of it there.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Ok, skeptics, we can forget all about anthropogenic climate change. Assume your correct, and that all the climate change we may, or may not, now be seeing is completely due to natural long-term fluctuations. Alright? Its off the table!
Now lets look at all of the other impacts of the fossil fuel industry:
Shall we start with the coal industry? Lets look at their environmental track record. Lets not forget to include labor relations (since humans are the most important life form on the planet)
Then we can move on to the oil industry: Exxon Valdez, BP Deepwater Horizon (eat much seafood from the Gulf lately???)
We could look at the automobile and all of the associated impacts.
Then we could move on over to the pesticide industry.
Finally, the oil addicted military industrial complex, totally dependent on fossil fuels at this point in order to maintain global military supremacy.
So what if there is no man-made global warming? Fossil fuels still have to go!
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Get used to a more frugal lifestyle (a.k.a. austerity)
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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In terms of energy consumption, many are already quite frugal. Not so for those of us in this country, we have no clue. There's really only closer to 1 billion who really need to get this message.
We can decide for ourselves, or mother nature will decide for us. It may already be too late . . .
edit: I'm really misusing "austerity", according to current parlance.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Don't be so depressing . . .
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Reeotch,
I agree. I also think this country is is doing pretty good with regard to reducing our carbon footprint. Our auto industry is moving in the right direction and there are a lot of coal fired power plants converting to natural gas. We are using the power of the sun and the wind. China and India on the other hand have some real issues to deal with. With that said, I think in time, they will move to clean up their act also. They are just people like us. They got common sense, they will figure it out.
I lived in L.A. in the 50's and I remember the air pollution. The population then was nothing compaired to now and today the air is pretty good . I remember the wild ideas to solve the problem and all it took was to admit there was a problem and reduce pollution. Common sense. Oh yea, if you are ambitious, you can be just as rich as Arnie, and have cool toys also. If I was more ambitious and I was rich, I would have a bigger house, in a better neighborhood, a new car or three, and a jet plane. Wow, what could be wilder than flying your own jet plane?
But I am not rich, I will never have any of that stuff, and while I would like to have it, that's cool. I am happy anyway. You rich people, enjoy your toys, most of you earned them.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Back on more or less science topics, Steven Mosher (notoriously skeptical) has an interesting guest post at And Then There's Physics about temperature record adjustments. He sketches basic reasons why adjustments are needed, mostly quoting other skeptics who have been saying so for decades. But his post (maybe part 1 of several?) wraps up with this killer:
Given that both skeptics and the mainstream scientists agree that changes in sensors, changes in time of observation and changes in location can bias the record, the question is. What do you do?
* Attempt to adjust the data.
* Only use “good” data.
* Use the raw data only.
Before we even debate that decision, however, we can start by looking at whether the question really matters. Here, for example, is a comparison of BerkeleyEarth with No adjustments, BerkeleyEarth with metadata adjustments only, and BerkeleyEarth will all adjustments
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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"Massive Death".
Just want to let that sink in awhile.
edit;Ok ,they can ban me now.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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The Chief...Assholes With Guns...He's been calling you this all along...
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Feb 10, 2015 - 01:35pm PT
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I would expect the same kind of lobbying in the food industry that made it difficult to show us the health benefits of tobacco and lead in gasoline. It knows no borders really. We all know about that big revolving door. There are all kinds of doors really.....like reciprocating doors....
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Feb 10, 2015 - 07:22pm PT
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