Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
May 17, 2011 - 02:54am PT
|
Little by little the truth comes out. As usual, it was a combination of natural forces and human error.
Nuclear plant cooling system manually shut down
The operator of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says workers may have manually shut down the No.1 reactor's emergency cooling system in order to prevent damage to the reactor. It says pressure inside the reactor had dropped sharply after the earthquake struck the plant on March 11th.
Tokyo Electric Power Company on Monday disclosed records of its operations at the plant.
They show that the reactor automatically halted operations after the earthquake.
The emergency cooling system was automatically activated but stopped about 10 minutes later and remained off for about 3 hours until after the tsunami arrived.
TEPCO says plant workers may have manually shut down the cooling system because pressure inside the reactor had dropped sharply from 70 to 45 atmospheres.
The system is designed to cool the reactor even if all external sources of power are lost, but the move to shut it down temporarily means that it did not fully function.
TEPCO says the decision may have been made based on a manual to prevent damage to the reactor.
It says if the system had worked, it may have had more time until the meltdown, so it will investigate developments leading up to the decision to turn it off and whether the move was correct.
Tuesday, May 17, 2011
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/17_22.html
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
May 17, 2011 - 02:56am PT
|
And the ongoing human cost as the evacuation zone is expanded.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
May 18, 2011 - 04:42pm PT
|
Things that we think can't and wont fail, still do.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/18/world/asia/18japan.html?pagewanted=1&hp
In Japan Reactor Failings, Danger Signs for the U.S.
By HIROKO TABUCHI, KEITH BRADSHER and MATTHEW L. WALD
Published: May 17, 2011
TOKYO — Emergency vents that American officials have said would prevent devastating hydrogen explosions at nuclear plants in the United States were put to the test in Japan — and failed to work, according to experts and officials with the company that operates the crippled Fukushima Daiichi plant.
The failure of the vents calls into question the safety of similar nuclear power plants in the United States and Japan. After the venting failed at the Fukushima plant, the hydrogen gas fueled explosions that spewed radioactive materials into the atmosphere, reaching levels about 10 percent of estimated emissions at Chernobyl, according to Japan’s nuclear regulatory agency....
The article goes on to show the decision making failures where the government ordered the utility to vent, (already late in the game) but they waited 6 hours and then the vents didn't work...
PEace
Karl
|
|
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
May 18, 2011 - 09:01pm PT
|
http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201105170428.html
Data shows meltdowns occurred at the No. 2 and No. 3 reactors of the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, creating huge problems for the plant operator that had presented a more optimistic scenario.
And like the No. 1 reactor, the melted fuel appears to have created holes in the pressure vessel of the No. 3 reactor, according to the data of Tokyo Electric Power Co. released May 16.
Goshi Hosono, special adviser to Prime Minister Naoto Kan, acknowledged the likelihood of meltdowns at the No. 2 and No. 3 reactors.
"We have to assume that meltdowns have taken place," Hosono said at a news conference May 16.
Haruki Madarame, chairman of the Nuclear Safety Commission, said in a separate news conference the same day that the meltdowns should not come as a surprise.
"When highly contaminated water was found at the No. 2 reactor building in late March, we recognized that a meltdown had taken place. So I informed the government," he said. "As for No. 1 and No. 3 reactors, we recognized that, given the processes that led to the accidents there, the same thing had occurred."
Immediately after the crisis erupted at the nuclear power plant in March, experts pointed out that meltdowns likely occurred at all three reactors.
But TEPCO's measures to contain the crisis have been based on the assumption of lighter damage to the reactor cores.
TEPCO had said it believed that only a portion of the nuclear fuel rods had melted. Now, it appears that all parts of the fuel rods have melted.
TEPCO recently said a meltdown likely occurred at the No. 1 reactor. But a TEPCO official on May 16 declined to comment on the possibility of meltdowns at the No. 2 and No. 3 reactors.
"We have yet to be able to grasp the entire situation at the plant," the official said.
A meltdown is a situation in which nuclear fuel melts and accumulates at the bottom of the reactor pressure vessel, which is located inside a containment vessel.
At the No. 3 reactor, the melted fuel may have burned through the pressure vessel to the containment vessel, the data showed.
TEPCO on April 17 released a schedule to reach a cold shutdown at the Fukushima plant within six to nine months.
However, given the latest data, the embattled company will have to drastically modify its plans.
If meltdowns have indeed occurred, more time will be needed to construct a system that cools the reactors. In addition, the company will be tasked with the huge chore of disposing of massive amounts of highly contaminated water.
TEPCO's latest data describes the situation immediately after the Great East Japan Earthquake and tsunami devastated the coast of the Tohoku region on March 11.
Release of the data, which had been kept at the central control room at the nuclear power plant, was delayed because it took time to restore power and remove radioactive materials attached to the papers.
According to the data, the pressure in the pressure vessel of the No. 2 reactor dropped at 6:43 p.m. on March 15. A similar drop in pressure also took place at the No. 3 reactor at 11:50 p.m. on March 16.
Those declines were apparently the result of holes made in the pressure vessels.
Previously, it was believed that water was leaking through holes at the bottom of the pressure vessels where measuring instruments and part of the control rod mechanisms were located.
Now, it appears that melted nuclear fuel formed new holes in the pressure vessels.
Radioactive materials, such as technetium, produced when nuclear fuel rods are damaged, have been detected in water in the No. 3 reactor building. That discovery has raised speculation that the melted nuclear fuel has breached the pressure vessel and landed in the containment vessel.
During the meltdown at Three Mile Island in the United States in 1979, the fuel remained in the pressure vessel. But work to remove the melted fuel from the pressure vessel, which started in 1985, took five years to complete. An additional three years were needed to confirm that radioactive contamination had been removed from the reactor.
Given the more serious situation at the Fukushima plant, some nuclear experts say more than 10 years will be needed to remove the melted fuel, eliminate the contamination and dismantle the reactors.
Fumiya Tanabe, a former senior researcher at what was then the government-affiliated Japan Atomic Energy Research Institute, said black smoke from the No. 3 reactor building in the days after the earthquake and available data on pressure showed early on that a meltdown had taken place.
"Before we saw TEPCO's data (released on May 16), we had been already aware of the possibility (of a meltdown)," he said.
Tanabe criticized TEPCO's recovery efforts and measures that were taken based on a situation that was much less serious than reality.
He said TEPCO's optimistic scenario led three workers to be exposed to highly radioactive water on March 24 and prevented measures to keep contaminated water from leaking into the sea through a trench at the No. 2 reactor building.
"In resolving serious accidents like those (at the Fukushima plant), it is a cardinal rule to work out recovery measures based on the worst possible situation," he said.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
May 23, 2011 - 03:43am PT
|
From Bargainhunter's link:
FLATOW: So we're talking about something that's going to take many months, and in all that time the radioactivity will continue to leak out.
Mr. LYMAN: Yes, unfortunately, that seems to be the situation. Their estimate is to have the reactors in cold shutdown within six to nine months. That's probably an optimistic assessment, but to deal with all the radioactivity that's already gotten into the environment and to actually stabilize the cores, package the materials safely and eventually decontaminate the site, that's -you're talking about decades.
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
May 23, 2011 - 01:30pm PT
|
Some, but not all... Thanx.
I'd rather see pics of the fuel pool that has debris in it, rather than the one shown, as nothing wrong with that one.
Of all reported and understood thus far, I think the "security" of that plant is of more concern than what happened to it during or as a result of the quake/tsunami, as it is a "softer target" now for terrorists.
I'm sure most will disagree with what I said above, but, nopthing I can do about that... Time will tell, but even then, many will cry 'cover-up'.
BTW... "I've heard kids wearing masks..." Newsflash: Lots of people wear masks in Japan, it been in vogue for some time now.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
May 23, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
|
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
May 25, 2011 - 11:13am PT
|
All three cores have melted down,
Reactor 1 the core or at least part of it is most likely in the basement.
Reactor2 may not be to bad but it is also possible that the core is in the basement
Reactor 3 core is getting hot,
There is on going fissioning
There is a very high probability that there was a nuclear explosion of some kind.
Containment Buildings are gone so all this is taking place in the open.
There is a high probability that there has been leaks into the ground table.
Ongoing leaks into the Pacific.
Do not care so much about school kids wearing masks as that is not uncommon in Japan. But, digging up 2 feet of dirt around a school while the children are kept in the school, in order to reduce radiation readings by 90% does. Closing the school is not an option becasue that would cost to much and really, the whole area is like that. School is located outside the 50 km area. What does bother me about the masks is now children have to wear them.
They cannot treat or decontaminate the water as fast as they contaminate it. (that is once they get started). They are quickly running out of storage.
These are just a few bullet points. It will take at least a decade to clean this up and the only option at this point is build new containment buildings which has yet to start and most likely will not start until the end of the year.
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
May 25, 2011 - 11:20am PT
|
milk samples from at least three US locations have tested positive for Iodine-131 at levels exceeding EPA maximum containment levels
As far as the water supplies are concerned, it is important to note that the EPA is only testing for radioactive Iodine-131. There are no readings or data available for cesium, uranium, or plutonium -- all of which are being continuously emitted from Fukushima
As far as the water supplies are concerned, it is important to note that the EPA is only testing for radioactive Iodine-131. There are no readings or data available for cesium, uranium, or plutonium -- all of which are being continuously emitted from Fukushima
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
May 25, 2011 - 11:38am PT
|
According to Tokyo Electric (TEPCO), radioactive iodine-131 in samples collected measured 200,000 becquerels per cubic centimeter, or five million times above normal. Cesium-137′s elevated level was 1.1 million times. No information on uranium and plutonium concentrations were given.
“EPA to raise limits for radiation exposure while Canada turns off fallout detectors,”
“If you’re the (EPA)," one option remains: “Declare radiation to be safe!” As a result, its Protective Action Guides (PAGs) are being revised to radically increase the allowable levels
All in all no big deal. Hey, did you see American Idol?
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
May 25, 2011 - 12:34pm PT
|
Mud... There is no "basement" in the Drywell of that design, and nothing under the vessel pedestal. And, as I've pointed out before, the is a big difference between "fuel damage", "fuel melting", and "melt down", similar to the difference in how the word "theory" is used amongst scientists versus the genral public.
It is also good practice to cite your source, when you quote someone, especially when you post it as 'fact'.
In a similar report on CNN:
"This report is not conclusive. No one has entered these areas and we cannot confirm this [holes in the Rx] as fact," TEPCO said, adding that the report is making preliminary assumptions about what happened inside the reactors. http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/25/japan.nuclear.report/index.html?hpt=T2
Otherwise...
UPDATE AS OF 4 P.M. EDT, TUESDAY, MAY 24:
Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) said today that fuel damage likely occurred in reactors 2 and 3 of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear energy facility in the first few days after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami. Both reactors are now reported to be stable and at relatively low temperatures. The extent of the fuel damage is unknown. If the water gauges inside the two reactors are accurate, there was sufficient water in the reactors to prevent damage to all the fuel, the company said.
Most of the fuel damage that occurred in reactor 2 is believed to have taken place within 100 hours of the earthquake. TEPCO believes fuel was damaged in reactor 3 within 60 hours. The company previously confirmed that fuel was damaged in reactor 1.
TEPCO plans to install two heat exchangers today to lower the temperature of the used reactor fuel at reactor 2.
UPDATE AS OF 1:30 P.M. EDT, FRIDAY, MAY 20:
Below is a round-up of noteworthy news that happened this week with regard to the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant and the U.S. nuclear industry's response.
Plant Status
Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) workers entered reactor buildings 2 and 3 Wednesday for the first time since explosions at the facility. Radiation levels in building 2 peaked at 5 rem per hour. Facing high heat and humidity, the workers remained in the building for only 15 minutes. In reactor 3, radiation peaked at 17 rem per hour near a pipe connected to the reactor. TEPCO employees first entered the reactor 1 building on May 5.
TEPCO is looking at how to begin nitrogen injection into reactors 2 and 3 to further stabilize them. The company has been injecting nitrogen into reactor 1 for several weeks. High humidity in building 2 is hampering operations. In building 3, high radiation levels must be reduced before workers can begin efforts to inject nitrogen. TEPCO announced plans to install new cooling systems for fuel pools in four of the six reactors at the site. It is believed the new systems will reduce the high humidity in the reactor buildings.
TEPCO provided a new timeline for recovery of the damaged reactors, recognizing challenges the company has encountered are slowing progress on certain activities. The company reaffirmed that the target timeframe for stabilizing the plant–between October and January–remains unchanged.
Radiation levels in the ocean near the Fukushima Daiichi facility increased again on Thursday, but overall radiation is decreasing in seawater and other areas around the facility.
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries has created two radiation-proof forklifts to assist TEPCO workers in removing debris from the Fukushima Daiichi site. TEPCO has been using robotic and remote-controlled equipment for clean-up activities. The forklifts, with cabins sealed by 10 centimeter-thick steel plates and more than 20 centimeter-thick lead-glass, have filters that keep out radioactive dust.
Industry/Regulatory/Political Issues
Industry consultant Lake Barrett told the House Science, Space and Technology Committee on May 13 that the tsunami, not the earthquake, caused most of the damage at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.
A blue ribbon commission studying U.S. used fuel policies heard briefings May 13 on the Fukushima Daiichi accident from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the Energy Department. The NRC representative summarized agency activities since the earthquake and tsunami damaged the facility. The DOE spokesman also discussed his agency’s activities, including a workshop scheduled for June 6-7 that will bring the nuclear energy community together to discuss lessons learned from the Japan event and potential actions that could further enhance nuclear safety.
Media Highlights
TEPCO had a net loss of $15.4 billion for the fiscal year that ended March 31, and the company’s president has announced his resignation, CNN reports.
Japan will continue to use nuclear power plants "that are deemed safe," Prime Minister Naoto Kan said in a Reuters report, but "we need to fully consider what needs to be done to enhance the safety of nuclear power."
TEPCO said the earthquake that struck Fukushima Daiichi March 11 exceeded design specifications at three of the site’s six reactors, Reuters reported. "This was clearly a larger earthquake than we had forecast," said Junichi Matsumoto, a TEPCO spokesman. "It would have been hard to anticipate this."
Operators of nuclear energy facilities have fixed or scheduled for correction all the issues NRC inspections found in post-Fukushima inspections, The New York Times reports.
Five tons of seawater may have flooded a reactor at the Hamaoka nuclear energy site, Japan Today reports. The site closed last week at the request of Japan’s prime minister for fears of a possible earthquake.
Japan’s utilities could have trouble meeting summer electricity demand, unless nuclear reactors–including those unaffected by the earthquake and tsunami but were shut down for maintenance at the time–are restarted, Reuters reports.
The Week Ahead
The Nuclear and Radiation Studies Board of the National Academy of Sciences will discuss the aftermath of Fukushima, beginning at 12:30 p.m. EDT May 26 at the Keck Center, 500 5th St., NW, Washington, D.C.
The NRC’s Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards will review events at Fukushima, beginning at 1 p.m. EDT May 26 at NRC headquarters, Room T-2B1, 11545 Rockville Pike, Rockville, Maryland.
http://www.nei.org/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
May 25, 2011 - 05:44pm PT
|
There is a very high probability that there was a nuclear explosion of some kind.
mynameismud,
i don't know how to break this to you so i will be gentle.....
you are a fawking moron.
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
May 25, 2011 - 06:58pm PT
|
The building has a basement. If it is not in the basement it is most likely on the floor of the building. You may call it what you like but general consensus is the pressure vessel has holes and the containment vessel is cracked and there has been leakage.
I do not think anyone believes what is coming from TEPCO at this point (well there is you). It took them two Months to state that the fuel rods in the Pressure Vessel of Reactor 1 had Melted down. Other sources have been saying that for over a Month.
If you wait for confirmation from TEPCO you will be waiting a lifetime.
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
May 25, 2011 - 07:08pm PT
|
Hawkeye
nameismud,
i don't know how to break this to you so i will be gentle.....
you are a fawking moron. No need to be gentle
Just providing the alternate to:
Nothing has happened. Sitting in the Sun for two hours is far worse.
or
You know, if you flew around the world in a jet you would get more exposure.
or
Kids wearing a mask in Japan is no big deal.
So Hawkey, tell me what you really think and please spare the me the spaces.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
May 25, 2011 - 07:15pm PT
|
The report is that #1 has a TOTAL of cracks totaling the area of a 7cm (three inch) hole.
#3 has a total equaling a 10cm (4 in) hole.
No one has seen the holes and cracks. The size is calculated from pressure drop and leakage rates.
No major breach or melt thru from that data.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
May 25, 2011 - 07:25pm PT
|
mnim,
there was not a nuclear explosion. there was a hydrogen explosion early on....there could have been a steam explosion when the rods overheated.
but if you want to spread idiocy and ignorance, then go for it.
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
May 25, 2011 - 10:12pm PT
|
Actually depending on the source. Some say when looking at the isotopes that have spread around the world that there had to be some kind of limited nuclear event. It could have been from the fuel pool in reactor 3. Dunno, nobody knows for sure since TEPCO is not sharing much. Many accuse them of obfuscation.
Some sources say there are holes but no leakage (of the melted fuel), others say there are holes and leakage. Again TEPCO is less than sincere.
Edit: Yes obviously there were hydrogen explosions.
Edit #2: I would never obfuscate. honest.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|