Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Mar 8, 2012 - 05:55pm PT

He did do the first alpine ascent and there is the question of the last few meters.........

deuce4

climber

Hobart, Australia

Mar 13, 2012 - 01:51am PT

Did the mythical Bridwell article ever appear? I for one would really like to hear his opinion, as he was really the first to complete the route to the summit.

I mentioned once in this thread that I thought the "intent" was important, and a recent reading of the Brazillian educator and philosopher Paulo Freire (in his book, Pedagogy of the Oppressed) nailed it for me: "I am more convinced that true revolutionaries must perceive the revolution, because of its creative and liberating nature, as an act of love."

This sums up why the disdain for Maestri in these discussions has really has irked me at times...

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Mar 13, 2012 - 02:51am PT

"I am more convinced that true revolutionaries must perceive the revolution, because of its creative and liberating nature, as an act of love."

With all due respect, for me that quote exactly highlights all that was wrong with Maetri's choices. The man is whomever he decides to be, my only problem is with the physical outcomes of his choices, none of which were creative and seem more born of a desperate act of self-love or Ahabian obsession. The renegade is enduring cultural iconastry, but in this case 'anything goes' took on a whole new and rather unsavory meaning.

The cad

climber

Does it matter, really?!?

Mar 13, 2012 - 08:38am PT

Read Jim Bridwell's point of view on the Compressor Route saga on PlanetMountain.com
A worth read.

uli__

climber

Milan, Italy

Mar 13, 2012 - 09:02am PT

Jim Bridwell who?... should be another italian patriot defending the honor of old Cesare, boring :-/

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Mar 13, 2012 - 09:19am PT

Now that was an interesting read, and with no shortage of simmering political sentiment behind almost every paragraph (hell, some of it almost borders on OT).

And though I do agree with some of what he says, and especially this:

Bridwell: You may say; excitement can be had in the security of an amusement park; which is not unlike the controlled environment of sport climbing.

With regard to an absolute and inviolate sanctity of FAs I would have to again, respectfully, disagree. Taking him at his word in that letter would mean he had and has no problem with the Jardine traverse, or indeed with anyone heading out tomorrow and chiseling their way up the Captain on an FA attempt. And, as seen in other threads in the past couple of days, if bolting on holds is someone's FA style then one would have to presume that's inviolate as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about FAs and hold them in incredibly high esteem and sanctity; but to suggest there are no edge cases, debacles, or atrocities sufficient to warrant a cleanup is certainly an 'exceptional' stance by any standard. Doubly so given he talks at length about the distinction between the 'ideal' versus living in the real world, seeming to lean heavily to the pragmatic in the process. If that is the case, FAs being inviolate under any and absolutely all circumstances then seems a highly idealistic pedestal indeed for a guy who otherwise appears to eschew such high-minded abstractions.

Last, I suppose even after an extraordinary life, one is ultimately left feeling as "normal" as the next guy - but I'm going to have to go out on a limb here and suggest the life he has led and the legacy he has left is anything, but "normal".

justthemaid

climber

Jim Henson's Basement

Mar 13, 2012 - 09:26am PT

I'm just a nuetral-opinioned lurker but that Jim article dragged me out of the closet. Finally we get to hear his word on the subject.

A worth read.

.. Worth a Meh.

I got about 2 paragraphs in before I had to stop and go get my galoshes to wade through the literary quagmire. That article is all over the friggin' place.

Cliff notes: After Jim got done with equating the actions of just two individuals with the decline of civilization as we know it and throwing in an Einstein quote... then after a further 10-15 paragraphs of about the history of mountaineering,war, social evolution, and more quotes from the Constitution...

Jim says chopping other peoples bolts is bad. OK. Whew. Got it. Opinion noted.

uli__

climber

Milan, Italy

Mar 13, 2012 - 09:37am PT

But with regard to the absolute and inviolate sanctity of FAs I would have to again, respectfully, disagree.

strange it may seems to you, I also disagree. FA is not sacred, style could be "bad". Some "evident" use of unproportionate means can eventually be emended. But only when there is CONSENSUS. Consensus among all, either those who care only (whorship?) about a piece of rock and those who care about history, and those... you got the point? It is the unilateral action and the childish later justification that got some people angry, not f*#king nationalism honor or other bullshits like that

uli__

climber

Milan, Italy

Mar 13, 2012 - 09:40am PT

Jim says chopping other peoples bolts is bad. OK. Whew. Got it.

Jim says that lots of US citizens are ignorant, unfortunately, he's right.

uli__

climber

Milan, Italy

Mar 13, 2012 - 10:04am PT

Statements like these don't help the credibility of Bridwell's arguments.

you don't need to believe his arguments, just try to understand what he's saying...

then you may agree or not

TwistedCrank

climber

Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho

Mar 13, 2012 - 10:24am PT

I'd like to read the Cliff Notes version of Bridwell's rambling.

BlackSpider

Ice climber

Mar 13, 2012 - 10:30am PT

Bridwell's rant on the fall of American civilization might be easier to take if he realized Jason Kruk was from Canada, not the USA.

Marlow

Sport climber

OSLO

Mar 13, 2012 - 10:36am PT

Bridwell's article:
http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=39298

"I do know that a couple of years ago, two Americans climbed the ice behind the ice tower and assumed this gave them the license to remove the bolts from this section of the original Maestri's route, because their variation required no addition of bolts. This type of arrogance is usually the provincial ignorance of youthful inexperience - ignorance not to be confused with stupidity or lack of intellectual acuity, ignorance is lack knowledge. Perception defines a person's perspective of physical reality and forms opinion. One thing is certain: unless a free people are educated - taught to think intelligently and plan wisely - freedom usually does more harm than good."

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Mar 13, 2012 - 11:34am PT

Planet mountain has no copy editors?

rectorsquid

climber

Lake Tahoe

Mar 13, 2012 - 11:55am PT

...unless a free people are educated - taught to think intelligently and plan wisely - freedom usually does more harm than good."

Educated people are like educated dogs, they can do some neat tricks but might still be very dumb. There's a bit of arrogance in thinking that smarter and more educated people would know enough to do anything right. I think that people do not have the capacity to do what is best for our species even with a good education.

Those bolts are a billion times smaller than most of the worlds problems, physically and philosophically. Using those bolts as a basis for evaluating the intelligence, knowledge, and humility of the FA or of the choppers is weak at best. Using those bolts as a basis for commentary on the state of the human species makes sense but in the way that is being done. It is the commentary itself that show what type of people we all are.

Dave

deschamps

Trad climber

Out and about

Mar 13, 2012 - 12:45pm PT

Jim says that lots of US citizens are ignorant, unfortunately, he's right.

Unfortunately that is the case all over the world. There is no reason to single out a particular nationality considering that this is the case everywhere.

WBraun

climber

Mar 13, 2012 - 02:20pm PT

Bridwell

In the end this matter will be decided in the court of public opinion. Presently, I am ashamed to be an American, but this is not the America in which I was born.

I will go further and renounce my citizenship to this new nation.

"And after all, no nation can transcend the moral values of it citizenry as exemplified in their chosen leaders.

Ignorance and selfishness will insure the downfall of even the highest type of government." God imposes man disposes.

Interesting ......

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Mar 13, 2012 - 02:23pm PT

Maybe he's headed back to Cortina d'Ampezzo...?

WBraun

climber

Mar 13, 2012 - 02:27pm PT

The first ascent is an adventure unique from all experiences thereafter which confers;

the choice of route,

the style and ethics of the ascent and the freedom to choose any and all methods necessary for the prevailing conditions.

The first ascent is the standard and legacy of fellow humans for a given moment in history.

It is for all others to maintain, not to change.

Ignorance and selfishness will insure the downfall of even the highest type of government."

God imposes man disposes.

More interesting stuff ......