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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2006 - 03:02am PT
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Now here is an unusual one. For over thirty years everyone thought that the plane was a Lockheed Lodestar. Thus the name, "Lodestar Lightning"....yes/no? Wrong. The plane was not a Lockheed Lodestar but instead it was a...uh....umm....
Wait until it comes out in print.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Jul 26, 2006 - 01:43pm PT
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Gee, it would not have been a Lockheed PV-1, tail N80BD, would it? In flight airframe failure caused by overloading, separation of wings?
Medium bomber of WWII with appearance somewhat similar in size and shape, though considerably more powerful.
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2006 - 03:55am PT
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Tradls...very close, but the cause of the crash is incorrect.
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Robb
Social climber
Under a Big Sky
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Jul 27, 2006 - 11:39am PT
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I'm guessing wing-root failure via structural flaw.
Hey Licky, you hangin' OK in this heat?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 27, 2006 - 04:01pm PT
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^ Flight Purpose listed as "Miscellaneous - Other"
Also - Under Probable Causes:
FACTOR(S) OVERLOAD FAILURE
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2006 - 01:21am PT
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The left engine was the key factor, not the wing
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jul 28, 2006 - 01:34am PT
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"I'm-a headin' to Californy, to chop some ice and get some green!"
EDIT: The specs at this link for the Lockheed PV-1 indicate a maximum payload (fuel, crew and cargo) of 10,000 pounds, so carrying 6 tons of headache weed was, apparently, beyond the scope of its intended use.
http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/itf/lopv1.htm
I heard second-hand (from an aerospace engineering professor at Cal Poly) that early aluminum airplanes had fatigue failure problems. Like bending a coat hanger back and forth until it breaks, the wing spars (or whatever) would flex until cracks developed. The vibration from the engines could also do this.
EDIT: The stock engines were two monster radials:
Pratt & Whitney R-2800-31 Double Wasp, 18 cylinders, 2000 hp
This engine powered the F8F Bearcat, which had the record time-to-altitude climb for piston aircraft (and still might).
Only a turboprop would have given better performance.
EDIT: My father was flying his Piper Cherokee from Reno back to Concord (Bay Area) and caught a rather nasty downdraft that caused the plane to lose thousands of feet very quickly. He was able to controllably crash it into the mountain. He and the passenger walked way, totally unhurt. This sort of thing might have contributed to the wing failure.
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Robb
Social climber
Under a Big Sky
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Jul 28, 2006 - 01:38am PT
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I'll venure that the engines weren't stock.
Tom LOL
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Jul 28, 2006 - 09:46pm PT
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http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/aircraft/Ventura.htm
Suggests slightly higher load carrying ability. The later models could carry 1600 gallons of fuel which is nearly 10,000 pounds.
I suspect that you are right, that there were not 12,000 pounds of weed (dry) on board. But it does seem reasonable that you could put enough in that it was loaded above manual takeoff limits with nearly full fuel tanks. Keep in mind that the flight was in December, so denser air would help takeoff performance. I suppose knowing the terrain around "Baja" would help.
Max range was under 1000 miles so they could have calculated being well under limits for landing with low fuel at end of flight. Weather (especially around mountain tops), loading, and fatigue in a fairly old aircraft might believably result in some sort of airframe failure and separation in flight.
Of course, one could just buy a copy of the full report...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jul 28, 2006 - 10:35pm PT
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For the life of me I cant find where the cargo is listed as 6 tons. Sounds like a made up figure to me.
I was wrong. I thought it was six tons, but it was 6000 lbs.
This figure is from an article written at the time, which I thought was linked to in this topic. Maybe it was the other, similar topic.
The gummit said they retrieved between 3400 and 4500 lbs, so the article said that left at least 1500 pounds (at $400 per pound, back then) unaccounted for. This is where the 6000 lb figure came from.
I'm waiting for someone to deduce that the weed was alot heavier because it was wet, so the plane crashed 8-)
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2006 - 01:50am PT
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Just a quick note for the speculators. They made the trip three times each month. The load each time was known and accounted for.
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2006 - 04:37am PT
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Another interesting point. Yes, the plane started off as a Lockheed PV-1 Ventura, but was "slightly" modified. It had a very interesting if not colorful history prior to becoming a drug running aircraft.
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2006 - 01:03am PT
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To those that I met with today, much thanks for the stories, the honesty, and above all else, the trust. I'll be back in a few weeks or so and give all a heads up. More photos this time.
thanks again!
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 20, 2006 - 01:47am PT
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Met the Mr Licky today. He is a very nice man.
Thanks for coming by Licky ..........
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2006 - 02:29am PT
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WB, yasureyabetchya...catchya next time
Remember, its all in the lips
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2006 - 03:25am PT
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Another up date is due for those that are following this thread.
Today I interviewed the guy that found the wing in the trees that launched the event. When he saw it, he thought he was looking at a man made fence, at the 8,700 foot level in the middle of the Sierra wilderness. The wing was on edge and looked completely out of place. It was white and had it been laying flat on the ground, this guy might have walked right by it since he saw it from quite a distance from the trail they were on.
I also now have some great photos of the lake and the melee that went on during Easter Weekend. So if anyone was up at the lake at that time you will probably appreciate the photos.
Stay tuned...
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2006 - 04:23am PT
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This is a tough day for the families and friends of the pilots that crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake. It is now the 30th anniversary of the plane crash and their death, December 9, 1976.
On a lighter note, It is also the 30th anniversary for those that found the plane and its cargo that helped launch the event that made the future for quite a few others. Whether it was simply purchasing that van and a ton of eight track tapes or providing the fodder for a book/movie, today is the day that sits heavy in quite a few minds.
If the wing that Ron Lykins had found was laying flat on the ground, things would have been very different for many today. Careers would not have been launched as they were.
I know this is a climbing forum, but everyone ought to stop and think about how much this event figured into the advancement of of the big wall craft.
Just saying...
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Hey Rick,
How's the book coming?
Chad
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2006 - 12:27am PT
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Chad, it moves at different speeds. I now know what they mean about writer's block. It seems like some days I can't figure out where the "any key" is and other days I'm up to 3am punching away like its my last day.
Finally have the entire military and civilian history of the aircraft. That in itself was no small feat. Next week I talk to the guy that was instrumental in introducing the pilots to the partners.
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