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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 21, 2010 - 06:25pm PT
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Corniss, other than appropriating the money for the Afghan war,
just exactly WHAT does House Speaker Pelosi have to do with this war?
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Matthew Moore
Trad climber
davis, ca.
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Jan 21, 2010 - 06:55pm PT
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Johnson, Gorbachev, Obama
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: December 2, 2009
Imagine you’re a villager living in southern Afghanistan.
You’re barely educated, proud of your region’s history of stopping invaders and suspicious of outsiders. Like most of your fellow Pashtuns, you generally dislike the Taliban because many are overzealous, truculent nutcases.
Yet you are even more suspicious of the infidel American troops. You know of some villages where the Americans have helped build roads and been respectful of local elders and customs. On the other hand, you know of other villages where the infidel troops have invaded homes, shamed families by ogling women, or bombed wedding parties.
You’re angry that your people, the Pashtuns, traditionally the dominant tribe of Afghanistan, seem to have been pushed aside in recent years, with American help. Moreover, the Afghan government has never been more corrupt. The Taliban may be incompetent, but at least they are pious Muslim Pashtuns and reasonably honest.
You were always uncomfortable with foreign troops in your land, but it wasn’t so bad the first few years when there were only about 10,000 American soldiers in the entire country. Now, after President Obama’s speech on Tuesday, there soon will be 100,000. That’s three times as many as when the president took office, and 10 times as many as in 2003.
Hmmm. You still distrust the Taliban, but maybe they’re right to warn about infidels occupying your land. Perhaps you’ll give a goat to support your clansman who joined the local Taliban.
That’s why so many people working in Afghanistan at the grass roots are watching the Obama escalation with a sinking feeling. President Lyndon Johnson doubled down on the Vietnam bet soon after he inherited the presidency, and Mikhail Gorbachev escalated the Soviet deployment that he inherited in Afghanistan soon after he took over the leadership of his country. They both inherited a mess — and made it worse and costlier.
As with the Americans in Vietnam, and Soviets in Afghanistan, we understate the risk of a nationalist backlash; somehow Mr. Obama has emerged as more enthusiastic about additional troops than even the corrupt Afghan government we are buttressing.
Gen. Stanley McChrystal warned in his report on the situation in Afghanistan that “new resources are not the crux” of the problem. Rather, he said, the key is a new approach that emphasizes winning hearts and minds: “Our strategy cannot be focused on seizing terrain or destroying insurgent troops; our objective must be the population.”
So why wasn’t the Afghan population more directly consulted?
“To me, what was most concerning is that there was never any consultation with the Afghan shura, the tribal elders,” said Greg Mortenson, whose extraordinary work building schools in Pakistan and Afghanistan was chronicled in “Three Cups of Tea” and his new book, “From Stones to Schools.” “It was all decided on the basis of congressmen and generals speaking up, with nobody consulting Afghan elders. One of the elders’ messages is we don’t need firepower, we need brainpower. They want schools, health facilities, but not necessarily more physical troops.”
For the cost of deploying one soldier for one year, it is possible to build about 20 schools.
Another program that is enjoying great success in undermining the Taliban is the National Solidarity Program, or N.S.P., which helps villages build projects that they choose — typically schools, clinics, irrigation projects, bridges. This is widely regarded as one of the most successful and least corrupt initiatives in Afghanistan.
“It’s a terrific program,” said George Rupp, the president of the International Rescue Committee. “But it’s underfunded. And it takes very little: for the cost of one U.S. soldier for a year, you could have the N.S.P. in 20 more villages.”
These kinds of projects — including girls’ schools — are often possible even in Taliban areas. One aid group says that the Taliban allowed it to build a girls’ school as long as the teachers were women and as long as the textbooks did not include photos of President Hamid Karzai. And the Taliban usually don’t mess with projects that have strong local support. (That’s why they haven’t burned any of Mr. Mortenson’s schools.)
America’s military spending in Afghanistan alone next year will now exceed the entire official military budget of every other country in the world.
Over time, education has been the single greatest force to stabilize societies. It’s no magic bullet, but it reduces birth rates, raises living standards and subdues civil conflict and terrorism. That’s why as a candidate Mr. Obama proposed a $2 billion global education fund — a promise he seems to have forgot.
My hunch is that if Mr. Obama wants success in Afghanistan, he would be far better off with 30,000 more schools than 30,000 more troops. Instead, he’s embarking on a buildup that may become an albatross on his presidency.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2010 - 08:36pm PT
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Ughhh, this is going to be nasty. The Taliban are 'dug-in' in Marjah...
Sounds like a target rich environment
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 11, 2010 - 11:14am PT
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How about a moment of silence for the passing of
Charlie Wilson? It could be said with some conviction
that but for his single-mindedness we would not be in
Afghanistan today. The Soviets were only a few months
away from annihilating the muj with their Hind gunships.
Due to Charlie's unrelenting pressure the CIA gave 'em
the Stingers that changed the course of history.
Required reading for anyone who dares opine upon Afghanistan:
Charlie Wilson's War, George Crile
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Feb 15, 2010 - 04:44am PT
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I'm with Reilly - Charlie Wilson was a great American. As a public servant, he worked hard for what he believed was in the best interests of America. As an individual, his many flaws embodied the free-will concept that has made America great.
In effect, he was a packaged-deal - - - to get the best, we had to accept the rest.
God Bless Charlie Wilson.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Feb 15, 2010 - 04:50pm PT
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Update;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704431404575066953058959716.html?mod=WSJ_newsreel_world
and a lucky Marine;
http://rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=290581&D=2010-02-15&SO=&HC=1
Suicide bombers failing to get their virgin allotments;
http://rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=290660&D=2010-02-16&SO=&HC=1
From the NYT link;
In 2007, the Taliban enlisted a 6-year-old boy, put a bomb vest on him and told him to go up to a group of soldiers and push a button. They told him flowers would shoot out, but the boy was not naïve enough to fall for it; instead he told authorities and they managed to get the vest off safely.
"It just shows you they're not able to get the kind of volunteers in Afghanistan that you get in Israel, Sri Lanka or anywhere else," Ms. Bloom said.
The Taliban's suicide bombers should not be dismissed simply because their body count is so low, General Tremblay cautioned. "They still are projecting terror."
Dr. Bloom of the terrorism study center said, "There's also still a terror factor of course, but if the only person being killed is the bomber himself, it's sort of like Darwinian selection."
The martyrdom testament videos that are so common in other countries are unknown here. "Such individual recognition," said the United Nations report, "is largely absent in Afghanistan." Instead, these suicide bombers are buried secretly at a potter's field in a wasteland at the foot of a mountain, at Kol-e-Hashmat Khan, a neighborhood of junkyards on the outskirts of Kabul. A policeman on duty there said no one ever visited. Many of the unmarked graves have been dug open by starving dogs, which feast on the remains.
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Mimi
climber
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Feb 17, 2010 - 12:16am PT
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Just learned of Charlie Wilson's passing. Only saw the movie, will have to read the book. Great man. He sure seemed to live a full life. Wonder what his views were of the recent situation.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 17, 2010 - 12:47am PT
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Great man.
Well, certainly an interesting man who knew how to 'work the crowd'
in Washington and Foggy Bottom. Had he not given such free rein to
his numerous demons he might have become 'great'. I maintain history
will not be particularly magnanimous in judging his involving us in
Afghanistan.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Feb 17, 2010 - 12:56am PT
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He was obviously a great man. But his work isn't over yet....
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 17, 2010 - 01:13am PT
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Have you read the book Blue?
He was a great womanizer, a great partier, a great
schmoozer, and pretty great at getting his way in
Congress. He was also a great 'reader' of people, if not
himself. He was a poor student at Annapolis, an ok
Naval officer, and rather shockingly lacking in common
sense quite often. For the longest time he kept trying to
get the CIA to buy a zillion Bofors for the muj. He
refused to acknowledge the immense impracticality of such
a weapon in their hands. It would have not only done them
no good it would have been a liability. I suppose an ex
gunnery officer could be excused for swooning over heavy
metal but, really, pity the poor mules who would have had to
carry those things. They also would have been no match for
the Hinds which Charlie thoght they would bring down.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 17, 2010 - 01:16am PT
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Operation Bluering continues...
Edit: It seems clear that he has a mission, so I thought it should have a name.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Feb 17, 2010 - 01:19am PT
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didn't read it, Reilly, but I know his story....good man.
What does that mean, Anders???
That's what I thought, you wouldn't want to talk sh#t about brave Canucks fighting alongside the murderous American and Brit forces, would ya?
A-hole!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 17, 2010 - 11:19am PT
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Bluey,
I agree he was a good man, but a very flawed man.
Larger than life for sure, but a couple notches below great.
The fact that he had a great effect upon things does not
necessarily mean he was great.
Mighty is just jerking your chain, you know he luvs ya.
Just don't dis curling.
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