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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Dec 19, 2018 - 09:00am PT
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AntiChrist: Erin needs a good lay.
Hence, her argument.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Dec 19, 2018 - 10:55am PT
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I don’t understand their relationship, but who am I to judge.
Agree with the understanding and it is hard to know how accurate of a portrayal the film gave.
But saying that any relationship should never be judged because that is there choice, I'm not with you on that.
For example, if someone is in a domestically violent relationship, I think it is perfectly reasonable to judge that relationship as bad.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 19, 2018 - 11:11am PT
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Not saying no relationship can be judged, just the one portrayed in the film.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 19, 2018 - 11:31am PT
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I haven't seen the film, only met Alex once for a brief moment, and didn't read the article, other than to take a cursory glance.
But, I have been following this thread. While there is plenty I could comment on, I'll just choose one point, which was made a while back about not very many women being on ST because people like to hang out with others like themselves, and ST is "mostly guys."
That's not the reason there are few women on this forum, and while I surely can't speak for every woman who has came, saw and left, I CAN tell you that for the most part, women who come here have reported being nearly immediately inundated with unsolicited communications which have quickly turned to a sexual nature and if rebuffed or even let down easy, have sometimes turned hostile.
Some women I have talked to have reported being stalked as a primary reason for leaving.
It's pretty standard, when someone mentions ST as a resource, that it's suggested, if female, to use an avatar that in non-specific to a gender, and to give no indication that you are female. I have heard people say this dozens of times.
There are women here, FWIW. You just may not realize it, or they may choose not to post. It's just not worth the hassle that comes from being a voice here, for the majority of women.
Luckily there are a good number of decent people here who are men, but unfortunately they are not the majority, and as we all know, it's the negative experience that sticks with a person most.
That's a pretty sad comment on the toxic masculinity in general for this online community, unfortunately.
Carry on with your judgements, thee who deem the author of that blog post as being unjustly judgemental. Irony.....
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couchmaster
climber
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Dec 19, 2018 - 11:32am PT
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Wesley said, quote: "Pretty obvious what the real issue is... but nobody is man enough to say it... Erin needs a good lay."
Are you just unable to argue against her discourse at all then?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 19, 2018 - 11:34am PT
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Btw, "Toxic Masculinity" would be an awesome name for a route with a phallic mineral formation on it...
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Roadie
Trad climber
moab UT
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Dec 19, 2018 - 11:54am PT
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Got about a third of the way through it. Pretty standard rant. I'm mostly pretty sick of the Noble Savage fantasy. Even the most casual glance at anthropology will reveal that people, since the beginning of humanity, (long before if we look at our chimp cousins)have had wars and raids. Less technically advanced peoples just lacked the economy to do it on a large scale.
Whatever, she is entitled to whatever opinions she wants, I am too busy living in my van, being childish, oppressing women and people of other races and consuming far, far more than I need, to care.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Dec 19, 2018 - 12:11pm PT
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Thanks for your perspective Happiee, most of us guys just have no idea what it's like for women on this, or any (every?) board. Those of us who don't do that stuff just assume everyone is like us, but I've heard enough tales from women across a broad array of online forums to know that just isn't so.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 19, 2018 - 02:05pm PT
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Yeah, I'm with Off White on this, but Happie, is this really what you meant to say?
Luckily there are a good number of decent people here who are men, but unfortunately they are not the majority I certainly have no argument with what you said in general, and yes the trend of stalking and harassment is awful, but you are inferring the good men here are in the minority?
That's a pretty strong statement, and I don't know how you can credibly (and fairly) support that assertion.
[edit]
Per what Zardoz reposted from Happie,
No question, if you really want to talk about toxic masculinity, this (stalking + harassment) is it.
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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Dec 19, 2018 - 03:51pm PT
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It's pretty standard, when someone mentions ST as a resource, that it's suggested, if female, to use an avatar that in non-specific to a gender, and to give no indication that you are female. I have heard people say this dozens of times.
Thank you, I stand corrected. I'm clueless on how females can stay safe on the internet other than to just stay off it. Your advice to use an Avatar is good. Some folks have said that using an Avatar is cowardly. Guys can get stalked to but is under reported. I was harassed at work but was to proud to report it.
I have noticed women, who are out jogging or walking, with headsets on, and unaware of their surroundings. I was rather dumbfounded.
I suggest all women take a personal defense class; although, my daughter wouldn't do it.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 19, 2018 - 04:08pm PT
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Women DO take personal defense course.
I can't help wondering why don't people suggest men take "How not to be a rapist" course......
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 19, 2018 - 05:41pm PT
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No worries. I don't remember that incident.
Also, like I wrote, my comment was not about the author, blog post or Alex, but about one of the reasons women don't show a presence here.
Tarbuster, maybe I should not have written that the decent guys were a minority. But....if we were to go with a 2/3 majority instead of 50%, I think it might be an accurate statement. Sorry to the guys who are surprised by that, or worry they might be cast in with the deplorables,but I think some of the experiences some women have had here would be surprising to you.
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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Dec 19, 2018 - 05:52pm PT
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I can't help wondering why don't people suggest men take "How not to be a rapist" course......
I might be wrong about this statistic, that over half of women have been abused by a known perpetrator.
All violence is unacceptable, even the violence that is labeled noble, honorable and of a higher calling.
Poverty is the sign, violence is the symptom. Cure the cause, goodbye symptom. No, we are told, kill kill kill!
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 19, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
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I'm using my phone so posting is difficult right now.
I meant that I would stand by 1 our of 3 male ST posters has displayed behavior that I would say women,in general, might find off-putting from a gender-inclusive angle.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 19, 2018 - 06:18pm PT
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And that as guys, and from an earlier generation, you just may not really get how it can be intimidating or unappealing.
There are ways to find gain access besides the ST messaging. A month ago some creep sent me a nasty email via a Contact button on my web shop.
Edit: If your identity is known, and you're a professional, your at risk of getting contacted via work.
This crap really does happen.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Dec 19, 2018 - 06:50pm PT
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I showed this cartoon to my wife and she laughed out loud, so I hope it only brings laughs here.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Dec 19, 2018 - 06:59pm PT
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ZardoZ: No. I only got creeped out when Cosmic stole my photos from other sites and photoshopped them and posted them here.
I’m sorry happie has such a hard time dealing with men on ST. I wonder if it has to do with her being a woman, or her posts about fixing her busted van every 6 months?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 19, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
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Happie,
Fair enough. Since those numbers are thumbnail at best, I'll take your adjustment as a gesture of good faith.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Dec 19, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
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So much hand wringing...
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part-time communist
Mountain climber
Bishop, CA
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Dec 19, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
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Erin’s essay was written in the spirit of climbers and climbing community which is to “go against the status quo”
So, good for her and f*#k all y’all.
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