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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 23, 2018 - 04:37pm PT
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JLP: I was joking If you're okay with Moose's post - have fun everyone!
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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Nov 23, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
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thanks for giving us permission JLP
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Nov 23, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
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I think Dean's work is fine, but I wonder where the line is between porn and "art"? This has been discussed a lot here, but it is a tricky question--or at least an interesting one. How would the photo of the woman looking up in front of El Cap have to change to make it porn? A leering grin straight into the camera? More direct presentation of vital territory? It would be an interesting experiment to have a series of slightly altered photos with the same model, background, etc., but alter them progressively and have large numbers of people surveyed to determine--art or porn? You could perhaps find some sort of line. For some folks, an exposed ankle is just TOO hot. See the Taliban. For others, virtually anything goes.
BAd
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
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Nov 23, 2018 - 08:16pm PT
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More nudes, less prudes!
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Nov 23, 2018 - 09:10pm PT
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Badclimber makes a good point. The line is wherever someone decides it is.
For me there is no line; it's all art.
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Degaine
climber
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Nov 24, 2018 - 04:25am PT
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Aeriq wrote:
That is about a strong of a indicator that Dean's work is art (not whatever else it's been called) that I can think of!
I wouldn't worry about what other people think (maybe you aren't).
A lot of movies, especially when there's violence, are considered by some to be artistic masterpieces and by others to be simply slasher films and/or gratuitously violent (Tarantino's films and the Texas Chainsaw Massacre come to mind).
Same goes for everyday objects: for some a hand-carved wood chair might just be a chair, and for others it carries a much deeper meaning depending who made it (and when).
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Nov 24, 2018 - 05:44am PT
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Moose pls remove my picture from here. I don't want creeps saving them so they can photoshop them or whatever you people do with people's pics.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Nov 24, 2018 - 07:19am PT
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Good point re. some primitive tribes. Would penis gourds on the street in New York be considered over-the-top?
BAd
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ECF
Big Wall climber
Ridgway CO
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Nov 24, 2018 - 07:29am PT
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So God is a pornographer then.
He made Adam, he made Eve( well let’s forget about Lilith), but not a pair of skivvies in all of Eden.
Dirty voyueristic bastard...
Love Ya Dean!
Christian
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Nov 24, 2018 - 08:41am PT
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I think Dean's work is fine, but I wonder where the line is between porn and "art"?
joking, right?
In 1964, Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain "hard-core" pornography, or what is obscene, by saying, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced... but I know it when I see it
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 24, 2018 - 09:46am PT
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Moose pls remove my picture from here. I don't want creeps saving them so they can photoshop them or whatever you people do with people's pics. You act like you don't know?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2018 - 10:01am PT
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https://www.guerrillagirls.com
https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/eascfa/feminist_art_base/anita-steckel
“We women artists… We believe sexual subject matter should be removed from the ‘closet’ of the fine arts where it resides in small portfolios, small works, off the walls, in private collections, etc. We believe sexual subject matter includes many things: political statements, humor, erotica, sociological and psychological statements, as well as purely sensual or esthetic ‘art’ concerns, and of course, the primitive - mysterious reasons none of us know. Sexual subject matter is kept out of museums and in ‘smut magazines’, films, etc., by men still in power because it is considered too unwholesome for such ‘high places’. Nude and sexually portrayed women, however, are not kept out of museums. It is always the men who cover their sex, who hide what they consider ‘their shame’, who think of their sexuality as unwholesome - the ‘fig leaf tradition’. We women artists object to this unhealthy and sexist discrimination and we demand an end to past sexist puritanisms in museums. We assert that sexual as well as any other subject matter is entirely the artist’s concern and that museums have no right to impose their puritanical and sexist - unbalanced, therefore unhealthy - timidity and coyness upon us all and upon future generations and we demand that sexual subject matter, as it is part of life, no longer be prevented from being part of art. And since the woman has traditionally been exposed in her full nakedness and sexuality in all the great museums of the world, so should the male be uncovered, as sexually on display as the woman; the erect penis therefore, as it is part of life, will no longer be prevented from being part of art. If the erect penis is not wholesome enough to go into museums it should not be considered wholesome enough to go into women. And if the erect penis is wholesome enough to go into women then it is more than wholesome enough to go into the greatest art museums.”
Statement by Anita Steckel (woman artist), distributed to other women artists on March 8, 1973 in NYC.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 24, 2018 - 10:15am PT
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the erect penis therefore, as it is part of life, will no longer be prevented from being part of art. OMG - Stone Penis?
Is the irony missed? Where is the balance in this thread?
So I looked up some of the art of Anita Steckel - nothing crazy bat sh!t weird to see there.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2018 - 10:21am PT
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PG? NC-17? She Made Such Calls for 30 Years
By Brooks Barnes
Nov. 23, 2018
SHERMAN OAKS, Calif. — Joan Graves, 77, has seen enough sex on screen for five lifetimes. New and inventive ways to kill people? Don’t get her started. She has spent decades assessing off-color humor, deciding what constitutes glamorized smoking and counting instances of the F-word...
Why do ratings seem harder on nudity than on violence?
We don’t set standards, we reflect them. What are parents most concerned about? Overall, there is something about graphic nudity in this country. We are all graphically nude a couple times of day, so I don’t quite get it....
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 24, 2018 - 10:25am PT
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Post some Stone Penis, Ed.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2018 - 10:59am PT
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with some worry that I will enflame your passions, JLP:
Glen Denny
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Nov 24, 2018 - 12:50pm PT
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 24, 2018 - 01:13pm PT
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Sorry to be trite, but having grown older, pretty sure she's seen both sides. Desire? Prospering from the industry, maybe defining it for a while, but not of it?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fear and Loathing? Spoiler alert, don't forget the end, but enjoy the ride anyway.
edit; pictures of kids praying in the context of the discussion among adults is a bit over the top.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 24, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
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Feck it. Why not, I'll keep going.
Maybe more than some here... their grandmother's didn't have the vote in their lifetime. A college degree for women? When they were finally allowed to attend, was often in something like home economics. Women in politics, "back in the day"?
Sorry, I said the p word. What were they worth, when they couldn't own property? The price of a dowry? Divorce?
Maybe some politics are older than the human species. In the game, the cost is often greater for women than men. Who makes the rules?
That may be a bit much to see that in some photos.
Do they elevate women? Some in those pics have done it themselves. Add a quote from them, to provide some perspective? A tick list to try to keep it real?
I don't know. Times change. We all get older. Youth vs. experience?
Dudes are gonna dude. Some have daughters; we're all from mothers. Don't think about it too much when looking. It may only be an instant.
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