Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2018 - 04:38pm PT
|
OP-
It seems what we perceive as the physical universe is constructed of frozen light ... analogous to a hologram.
would this include fire?
Yes.
To the extent that I think I understand such things.
The simple [no doubt over simplified view] is that the entire material universe consists of complex vibration patterns in the ether [substitute your preferred wording flavor]. So anything material, including fire or any other effect observable as part of the material universe, is included in this cosmological concept.
So the material universe with a loud allegorical clang, is contriving to keep me honest in my 'expanded perceptions' of all this. Looking out the window past my computer is my view into dense forest currently with a flock of chickadees and juncos flitting about and competing for my bird feeder and suet block.
And yesterday I stood on a bluff ten feet above a small clear pond, reflecting light from the sky, dropping rocks into it ... fascinating to watch the concentric rings spread out from the center, spreading to the rocky shore and reflecting back on themselves clear across the pond and once again back on itself, from all sides except where the blackberry thicket absorbs all the ripples on one side ... and water splashed up falling down and starting other rings on top of the main rings... on and on ... and then a gust of wind adds to the patterns ...
So my thinking [not exactly my own original thinking] is that what we perceive as the material universe is one layer of a multi-layer construct, sort of like layers of an onion.
when you light a proper camp fire, you scratch a match, use it to light a little tinder bundle, which lights some kindling, which lights some small firewood, and which heats up and eventually lights the larger logs of your camp fire.
This brings to mind how you fire off the space shuttle booster rockets. I went through an intensive course at ATK in Brigham City, Utah on how these huge booster rockets are constructed and activated. So it starts with a little squib inside a tiny match box with a scattering of what look just like the heads of stick matches. The bottom of this tiny match box has a grid of holes that are blocked off by a thin metal plate that is pulled out by the close-out crew as the last step on their checklist just before they race to the safety of a bunker away from the launch tower. Once the main engines are cooking nicely, the booster squibs are fired [heaven help the crew if one booster fires and the other one doesn't!!] ... the match heads light up and squirt a little fire down into a little rocket engine about the size of a small jam jar ... which fires up and squirts a jet of fire down into another rocket engine about the size of a trash can ... which shoots a big jet of fire igniting the 150 ft length of the main booster rockets and the mechanical hold downs release this whole nightmare contraption which will now hopefully be in orbit in about 9.5 minutes with a crew of our friends sitting on top of it...allowing those familiar with this whole ridiculous process to start breathing again...
An H-bomb ignition sequence is all too similar ... a computer chip activated squib(s) smaller than a pencil erase ignites some high explosive fireworks in a quart jar, compressing a fist sized lump of fissionable material (A-bomb), creating the environment for activation of a hall-of-mirrors of fusionable material (H-bomb)....not giving out any secrets...LOL...
So back to our oversimplified material universe ... a seed of (fractal geometry) thought form drops into a sea of (created) energy and sets off a process sort of like how a lake freezes up on a cold night ...
Except this seems to be again in a sequence of layers such as the levels of awareness referenced above. Another representation of this that I am aware of but haven't assimilated into my understanding, says there is the physical layer, the etheric layer, the astral layer, the mental layer, and then a causal layer. However it is represented, there do seem to be layers to all of this ..
Another representation might be the classical concept of ether, then a layer of electro-magnetic-gravitic vibrations, then the fourier transformation creating the 'holographic universe' in our minds.
...not trying to give anyone vertigo ...
Ok, ok ... i did say this was dramatically oversimplified ...
Oh ... and to confirm any of this requires enhanced levels of awareness ... and as others have pointed out so eloquently ... a mind transmitting thoughts is not listening ... a very aware mind is a very quiet mind ...
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2018 - 05:05pm PT
|
Oh ... and to confirm any of this requires enhanced levels of awareness ... and has others have pointed out so eloquently ... a mind transmitting thoughts is not listening ... a very aware mind is a very quiet mind ...
You mentioned Ingo Swann and what you said above reminds me of what he had to say about the signal to noise ratio. Subtle signal with lots of noise equals lots of noise.
|
|
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2018 - 05:06pm PT
|
This is not to cross examine- just wanting you to elaborate. Frozen light refers to the trapping of photons. Our perception is based on an electrochemical signal produced by the reflection of light.
This can certainly use further elaboration ... and I need to leave for the local volunteer fire department training ...
So light propagates as a wave until observed, at which point it acts like a photon particle, which is transformed into holographic images that we perceive as material reality ... which oversimplification causes Ed to choke up his mouthful of coffee ...
So while Ed is sputtering, but, but, but ...
I'll get into even further trouble by pointing out that as an 'object' approaches the speed of light, it gets heavier and expands in space and its time goes slower ... Einstein said it, don't blame me
But nothing can go faster than light ... cough ... cough ...
So what can go as fast as light?? Well how about a photon??
Ok so a photon 'particle' (thought form??) goes the speed of light ... at which point this 'photon thought form' becomes infinitely massive ... and fills all space ... and time stops for it ...
So now it can 'stop' and reappear 'anywhere' and do this any 'time.'
Which quantum physics says it does all over the place at random places and times ...
Thus a single photon thought form creates the entire material universe.
LOL
(we are all one)
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2018 - 05:15pm PT
|
The mind can travel faster than the speed of light .....
|
|
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2018 - 05:17pm PT
|
yes, and so can the connection between entangled photon particles ...
(ooops .... same thing ...)
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
|
Your noise-cancellation blanket-over scenario does not take into account that your perception is affected by your memories.
Perceptive comment, MH2.
"I am a crow. I am teaching you how to become a crow.
When you learn that, you will stay awake, and you will move freely.
Otherwise you will always be glued to the ground, wherever you fall."
|
|
Queue
climber
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
|
If you want to make a point about this slippery slope, it has little chance of sticking unless it is very specific and logically coherent.
Trump’s election, and the informational environment that led to it, seems to be something of a counterpoint. Specific and logically coherent seems to have little to do with the stuff people are doing in their brains, or our interpretations of the stuff people are doing in their brains.
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2018 - 08:21pm PT
|
Not always.
Yes, but not until someone was actually looking for it in 1982.
|
|
nah000
climber
now/here
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2018 - 09:21pm PT
|
i've been following this thread with interest... so thanks to both TomCochrane and all those who have made meaningful contributions. to be specific, gotta give a shout out to DMT for his memorable exposition on being barefoot... sometimes shifts in consciousness are both simple and profound... [at the same time that sometimes they are perception shattering and the result of psychologic/spiritu-al universes colliding...]
i've hesitated to contribute, especially at first, in large part due to the title of this thread.
while it may seem a quibble, for myself, a title more along the lines of Consciousness and Areas of Awareness would have been more apt.
the problem i have is that the word Levels smacks of a hierarchy and an underpinning, all-encompassing theory of everything that might explain said Levels. i get this may not have been the intent, and so i may, to a degree, be reading things into the title. still, that is what it implies to me.
this is problematic, as for me, if we are to speak of consciousness and awareness, my experience has only resulted in the continuing/regular shattering of any all encompassing theory of everything that i have come across.
in short, i was brought up in a hardline fundamentalist religion, that tried to explain everything we understand and experience [with sometimes masterful twists of logic] via their literal reading of the bible. i then spent time pursuing, not mostly as escape, but rather primarily in pursuit of understanding, experience through psychedelics, through physical deprivation, through meditation, through the study of a few of the viruses that are the languages that we employ and through etc... and so i've also spent time making a living with my hands, to a degree within hard sciences, as well as within the arts.
the point is not to suggest that i am the one who is all knowing... all i do know at this point is that i ultimately don't know. the point is that in every direction i pursued, i always came to a point where the all encompassing theory of everything that each area might have implied or that i assumed was there [when i started] disintegrated either as i continued to pursue it or continued to pursue its complements/competitors...
and so if i am certain of anything it is something that i am not always good at implementing [and with apologies to k.lamar]:
be humble.
to think any one of us, have this whole deal well enough figured out to ignore/dismiss the pursuits of those who have put years and decades towards taking paths and trajectories both askew and perpendicular to the collective mass of wo/men's current outward and professed reliance on material science is as arrogantly ridiculous as the church dismissing the trajectories that were askew and perpendicular to the collective's outward and professed reliance on holy books hundreds of years ago.
because in the end, from my perspective/experience we only touch tails, or ears, or trunks, and those who profess to know the whole elephant are in general charlatans/naive [even at the same time i try to stay aware that there are many, many who have experienced much, much more of both parts of and the whole of the elephant than i have].
when i was a kid, i went through a couple years of obsessively collecting insects.
butterfly net, alcohol killing solutions, cork mounting mats, pins with scientific names on bits of triangular paper: the whole kit and caboodle.
when i started, i rarely saw bugs.
but, after months and months, the world was covered with them.
i'd look at a lawn and see it to be teeming with life... at a certain point, most of which i'd already collected, but still: they were there...
and today?
i only see the dragonflies and the butterflies directly in front of my face.
and so i look forward to the continued opportunity to hear the experiences of those who have pursued experiences/awarenesses that i may not even believe to exist.
even if your words don't automatically result in anything more than curiosity.
thanks again and peace.
|
|
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2018 - 12:38am PT
|
So just this evening presented an intensive practical exercise in awareness.
I was at the fire hall for a training, when the page went out for our county SAR team to go find an 84 yo man who hadn't returned from his afternoon walk in the woods.
So we spent 4-5 hours at night searching through rugged terrain, stream beds, woods and bushwhacking, and trying to sense his presence. I wasn't the one to find him, we can thank a sense dog for that; but did find tracks to establish direction of travel and the general area where he was found. I can't personally claim any credit other than as a team member. But my feeling is that his presence could be felt in the area where he was found soon after we passed nearby.
|
|
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2018 - 01:03am PT
|
the problem i have is that the word Levels smacks of a hierarchy and an underpinning, all-encompassing theory of everything that might explain said Levels. i get this may not have been the intent, and so i may, to a degree, be reading things into the title. still, that is what it implies to me.
I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.
And would suggest a slightly different perspective, that our sensitivity to hierarchy is the chronic abuse of power in a control structure designed to manage by enforcement or enslavement rather than by mutual agreement.
My conviction is that people do good work, not because they are basically lazy and are forced to work by a fear based management structure ... but people do good work because their natural motivations to do good works overpowers their distaste for fear based management structures.
So as to how this relates to levels of awareness ...
I don't think the concepts I discuss offer anything like a complete understanding. However these concepts perhaps offer a framework which may be used to further our understanding of how things work.
And there is extensive evidence of manipulating public awareness to the benefits of centralized social power structures. Awareness of this is probably basic to becoming free of such mind control techniques as developed and applied by Madison Avenue advertising firms ...
As mentioned above, some `layers' of awareness seem specialized for performing particular tasks, such as memory or highly strenuous tasks or fine motor control or healing...
|
|
Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
|
|
Feb 16, 2018 - 02:42am PT
|
i AND THE OTHER I ALWAYS TRY TO READ & DIGEST WHAT EVER nahOOO
SHARES
This ONE AND (the one before) ITS LAST is,
at 1st,
sort of an approach?
it has, as is clear, left me a bit off base.
I have and still do surf in time and space
Herr Braun may or may be so ground'd that it's a moot point
To doubt him, though, seems perilous-his schtick here terse and un-sharing
Ive flown thru the sun too so his banter is reviled & not to be adhered to
where is the searchers sustenance most nourishing, in the womb of death were rebirth is not a given. . .
not smokin; anything so? can ya tell
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Feb 16, 2018 - 08:13am PT
|
I'm not so woo-curious that I'm going to join a church or a meditation center or buy a pair of yoga pants though.
I wonder if there are actually any here that fit that bill. I know they are out there, I have met a few, but I also know that that is a fear that some have that prevent them from exploring their own curiosities. There are Joiners and Explorers too. I see them as different species.
Unreasoned fear is a master intellectual fraud practiced upon the evolving mortal soul.
|
|
Nick Danger
Ice climber
Arvada, CO
|
|
|
Feb 16, 2018 - 08:49am PT
|
I am enjoying these many thoughtful posts, though I must confess that I have not made time to read them all. A thank you to all who have posted up here.
nah000's post above totally rocks. "be humble" might be the single most useful thing I have read here.
Although I am a scientist by both vocation and by avocation, I think the science vs religion divide is totally arbitrary. The scientific method is a very useful technique for inquiring into the nature of certain things, whereas prayer, meditation, and contemplation are valid methods of inquiry into the nature of certain things. I value both. The older I get, the less attached I become to any particular world view; All Existence seems to be a pretty cool gig.
As a scientist by trade and inclination, I want to offer a thought experiment that perhaps alludes to consciousness creating the Creation. Various repeatable experiments have been conducted for observing light (electromagnetic radiation in the "visible" frequencies). Those experiments designed to observe light as a wave-form end up perceiving light as a wave-form, and those designed to observe light as a particle detect photons. The particle/wave duality extends to more traditional particles as well, although the low mass particles like the electron are easier to observe in this particle/wave form duality than more massive particles. Additionally, modern atomic models show the electron existing as a probability function within specific volumes associated with energy levels surrounding the atomic nucleus. Ergo, the actual "physical universe" manifests itself as the perceiver (the designer of the experiment) has chosen to see it. How is this not consciousness creating the Creation?
Peace, and thanks to all here.
|
|
MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
|
|
|
Feb 16, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
|
and so if i am certain of anything it is something that i am not always good at implementing [and with apologies to k.lamar]:
be humble.
Thank you for that.
For the good advice and also for the humor. It looks as though someone who advises humility does so by arrogantly commanding us to be humble.
I am pretty sure that is not true but it is fun to see it that way.
I would not claim to be certain of anything, though I am willing to bet that no one is going to find a largest prime number.
For enduring wisdom I recommend what Donnie the South African told us in an eatery in Capetown. Somehow we had a helium balloon. We were taking turns inhaling from it and talking like Donald Duck on the exhale. Donnie got the last turn. He sucked in the last of the helium. Then in a high squeaky voice; "It was fun while it lasted, but it's over now."
|
|
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2018 - 07:38pm PT
|
You mentioned Ingo Swann and what you said above reminds me of what he had to say about the signal to noise ratio. Subtle signal with lots of noise equals lots of noise.
Just to note that one of our better human abilities, that can be practiced and refined, is the ability to pick out patterns (signal) from noise.
As in the example I gave above about watching a pond ... every causitive effect sends out concentric rings of influence which can be detected from within a broad spectrum of noise.
That's one of the key methods of detecting deep submarines out in the ocean ... by detecting anomalies in surface wave patterns ...
when i started, i rarely saw bugs.
but, after months and months, the world was covered with them.
This is very relevant as focused attention ... deer hunters see deer everywhere ... golfers see golf balls everywhere ... NASA dudes instantly recognize launch vehicle contrails distinct from the contrails of jets ... climbers look for lines of ascent on every rock face ...
|
|
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2018 - 08:52pm PT
|
If you had no sense organs from the moment of your birth, what would your perception be like? Would it be like the isolation tank?
This is pretty much what the Kogi/Tairona people do in the region of the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta in Columbia. Those chosen for the priesthood are born in a totally dark cave and are raised in the dark until they are teenagers. Their only contact with the outside world is daily lessons from elder priests. So when they are finally taken out into the light as teenagers, they see the world literally in a different light.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Feb 16, 2018 - 10:02pm PT
|
They say "Rest in Peace" to those whom have deceased.
How in the fuk does a dead person rest?
Only live person can rest.
St00pid gross materialists ........
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!