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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jan 14, 2018 - 11:27am PT
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Lituya - You have a rather low outdoor rec to political posts yourself; I'm not sure you have posted even one climbing-related post(walking up hills ain't climbing)and we don't even know who the hell you are.
I've climbed with Ed Hartouni, as have many others on this forum, He's a damned fine man, and deserving of respect for his kind heart, his intellect, and his scientific accomplishments. So far as I understand, no one has even been able to say they saw you in a climbing shop trying on approach shoes.
Until you show at least a card or two - that you aren't simply a pay-per-post troll, that is all anyone will see you for here. Sure, we'll engage you, but nothing you write carries any weight. What are you so afraid of, to show us who you are? You DO realize, don't you, that most of the old timers here have long ago passed their peak condition? That one is a little less lean, has a lot less hair, and is on the descent arc of their climbing journey, even done for good, is not a problem.
There is a saying: Talk is cheap. Ante up, already.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jan 14, 2018 - 11:28am PT
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That's the way I grew up: Professor Danilo "Danny" Lozano
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Lituya
In this context you can see Marlow as an atheist and prophet...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jan 14, 2018 - 11:50am PT
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Hapi....There you go with climbing ability having something to do with political savy..And being so judegmental of Lituya when he's swamped at the drive thru window...
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 14, 2018 - 12:20pm PT
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Don't bother arguing with La Tuna. He's a troll.
I find it interesting that the two GOP senators, Tom Cotton and David Perdue, in the meeting with Trump have now recanted their prior Tony Soprano statements of 'not specifically remembering' hearing Trump use that phrase to (surprise, surprise) now claiming he did not in fact use that phrase. I continue to marvel how low the GOP will stoop to serve their fuhrer rather than their constituents or, heaven forbid, their nation. Repugnant stuff.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 14, 2018 - 01:48pm PT
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And Mr. Ed, yes, thanks for reminding once again that you are an academic who went to Columbia back in the day. No doubt this lends much power to your politard thread arguments--where you post exclusively nowadays.
I'm not an academic, actually, I work at a national laboratory for the past 20 odd years (I had taught at UMass/Amherst in the 1990's).
My "arguments" aren't political, on these posts, they are pointing out that if you actually had any conviction to your opinions you wouldn't hide behind the anonymity of an avatar.
And many people that read and post to SuperTopoForum have read my trip reports, and more, they know who I am and have not trouble coming up to me when they see me climbing somewhere. When I post I think about that. That's a big difference (and not a political one, I've met Jody, and Cosmic and Reilly in climber settings), they would stand up for what they post here, whether or not I agree is quite beside the point.
As far as exclusively posting on political threads, I think that is probably a point we would disagree with, but I don't look to you to present actual fact, as there is no consequence for you posting outright lies, let alone stretching the truth. Maybe you could post the fraction of "political" post to climbing posts that I've done. So far you are posting 90% political... I'd have to go a long way to get even close.
My criticism of the current administration: it is one thing to shoot your mouth off, quite another to come up with some policy that effects the proposed changes, I don't see that the recent comments that lend to the title of this thread have anything backing them up, in terms of leading the world at least, and even in this country they are horrendously counterproductive.
I am happy to discuss any of my posts with any of the climbers I'd run into at any of the climbing locations I frequent. Apparently I am recognizable enough that people introduce themselves to me "out of the blue."
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 14, 2018 - 01:58pm PT
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Trump supporters are racist, ignorant, and VERY un-American...
No if's, and's, or orange fat fuk doubt's about it...
LOL, you forgot to call them rapists, murderers, and doodie-heads.
Funny how "Drumph!" detractors seem willing to lower themselves to what they accuse Trump of doing: name calling.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 14, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
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Cosmiccragsman, are liberals in this country even liberals?
Certainly not by the historical definition or tradition of liberalism. The rest of the world, which wasn't affected as much by the Progressive Era's war on language, still uses the original meaning. Australia's Liberal party. Various "liberal-conservative" parties. The hyphenated form probably makes some Americans' heads hurt.
The same could be said about the left, which originated in the left wing of the French parliament and generally stood against state privileges (to preferred industries and families) which the Mercantilists were generally for. Even the term progressive means something very different than it used to.
I think the switch happened because the term Socialist wasn't very marketable in this country. It's a shame considering how terms are only useful if they have specific definitions.
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Bethesda
Trad climber
Bethesda
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Jan 14, 2018 - 02:35pm PT
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A Norwegian television station sent a reporter out to do man on the street interviews, looking for anyone willing to emigrate to the United States. The reporter could not find anyone. The Norwegians interviewed, however, were notably polite in declining the invitation.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 14, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
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A Norwegian television station sent a reporter out to do man on the street interviews, looking for anyone willing to emigrate to the United States. The reporter could not find anyone. The Norwegians interviewed, however, were notably polite in declining the invitation.
Did they do the same in Haiti?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 14, 2018 - 02:49pm PT
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It's a shame considering how terms are only useful if they have specific definitions.
it's a shame when you need to find some label to characterize a viewpoint that you don't agree with, but would like to discredit wholesale by attaching some pejorative name to it.
Much easier, especially if you are into trolling, than actually making an argument. If by socialist you believe that the Federal Government should not engage in activities that require support from tax generated revenue, then where do you draw the line?
You would prefer to have no regulating laws at all and have everyone fend for themselves?
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 14, 2018 - 03:13pm PT
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it's a shame when you need to find some label to characterize a viewpoint that you don't agree with, but would like to discredit wholesale by attaching some pejorative name to it
I did no such thing. I am a liberal for the most part.
Probably one of the more succinct definitions of liberal is someone who thinks a law ought not exist without a reason for it to do so, and that a conservative doesn't think a law ought to be changed unless there is a pressing reason to do so. They aren't really opposites and a liberal and conservative body politic may end up with a similar set of laws.
The problem I have with conservatism is you often up with statutes which one can reason have deleterious effects and yet conservatives will claim they shouldn't be changed because the sky isn't falling yet. On the other hand there are limits to how wise such short-lived group-thinking creatures such as humans can reason the full effects of policy and a rejection of all tradition inevitably leads to unintended consequences. Humility demands I accept the utility of dogma.
If by socialist you believe that the Federal Government should not engage in activities that require support from tax generated revenue, then where do you draw the line?
LOL, where did this come from?
A socialist is in the strictest sense someone who advocates Socialism which is where the means of production is owned and/or controlled by the state, community, or an advocate of the Volkswirtschaft (or national economy). One of my criticisms of Trump is he seems to be an advocate of the Volkswirtschaft (although I don't know this for certain).
The contemporary European use of the term socialist an advocate of interventionism or the so-called "mixed-economy".
I don't consider any of these terms to be pejoratives.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 14, 2018 - 03:17pm PT
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Cragman, remember it was a bunch of 'liberals' who set up the guillotine
in the Place de la Bastille.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 14, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
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I should clarify that Volkswirtschaft is not a political ideology, but rather a term which implies that the nation's interests are different to the individual's interests as expressed in the market economy. So I should have said an advocate of the notion of Volkswirtschaft, not an advocate for Volkswirtschaft itself.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 14, 2018 - 03:21pm PT
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Cragman, remember it was a bunch of 'liberals' who set up the guillotine
in the Place de la Bastille.
That's a crass generalization, and one which can be sharply directed at "Conservatives" running the Inquisition.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 14, 2018 - 03:25pm PT
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HaHaHa! In case you didn't get the memo: SuperTopo is ALL about crass!
FYI, the Inquisition was just a way for the Catholic Church to get their
hands on the Spanish Jews' money. It's just business!
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Bethesda
Trad climber
Bethesda
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Jan 14, 2018 - 03:26pm PT
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Cragman --
I think the point is that our president has made it very difficult to see that anything separates us from the barbaric people groups of the world. For a long time we thought we were better but that no longer appears to be the case. We are as filled with hatred and bigotry as anyone else.
By the way, this is not really anything new. My grandfather threw a party when FDR died. Boy, he hated that man.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jan 14, 2018 - 03:27pm PT
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You would prefer to have no regulating laws at all and have everyone fend for themselves? Philosophers have been debating this questions for thousands of years. The general consensus has been that anarchy is not good for humanity. The Social Contract theory of the 18th century, upon which our Declaration of Independence and constitution are based, states that people bind together in a social unit for the betterment of society, advancement of the human condition, and protection of all of our rights, under a government whose job it is to make all of this happen.
Conservatives have forgotten our roots and are pushing us towards anarchy, i.e., an unregulated society.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 14, 2018 - 03:36pm PT
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FYI, the Inquisition was just a way for the Catholic Church to get their
hands on the Spanish Jews' money.
...or they were highly suspicious of those who were converting in name only as being traitors to the nation. If it was only about money, why the focus on heretical ideas? Where's the cash flow from book burning? Did witches, blasphemers, bigamists and sodomites also have that cold-hard Jew gold?
Seems to be another crass generalization.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 14, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
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The Social Contract theory of the 18th century, upon which our Declaration of Independence and constitution are based
Huh? Where is the evidence for this? The use of the word "We"?
The Declaration of Independence was based on the liberal British ideas about individual rights being ordained by a universal authority higher than any King or state. There is nothing there about social contract. I don't see any evidence of social contact in the Articles of Confederation, either.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 14, 2018 - 03:43pm PT
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I may as well add that the Bill of Rights (only good part of the Constitution) don't delineate any rights which free British citizens didn't think they had prior to the so-called "Revolution"
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