Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
True enough, Mr. Toast That is Milk. I still love Indiana, after all it's home, but while I have nightmares that I've moved back to Indiana, I don't have nightmares that I'm living in California!
|
|
Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
|
|
Poverty begins in California at that point where you drive far enough east that it begins to feel like you're in the Midwest: All-white, tweakers, Jesus freaks and poverty. Will only change when Modesto-Lodi (209) attract big high tech money the way Sacramento is starting to do. That's when people will start investing in the Gold Country foothills that way they did at the peak of American prosperity c. 1965.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
The ILWU is a great organization. They remember Bloody Thursday and the make sure their newcomers learn.
Go down to the port of Long Beach and watch the longshoremen at work and then tell us they don't earn their wage and more. Those big container ships come in one day and are gone the next.
https://www.ilwu.org/why-we-continue-to-honor-%E2%80%9Cbloody-thursday%E2%80%9D/
I would like to read you a quote from a man who witnessed the events of 1934. It’s a different perspective, but from someone who was just as much a participant as Harry Bridges or anyone else. The quote is from William H. Crocker, a prominent San Francisco banker during the time of the General Strike. He was a leader and strategist for the employers.
In fact, Crocker is one of the men whose interests the police were protecting when they gunned down Howard Sperry and Nicholas Bordoise. The words below are the words of the enemy, Brothers and Sisters, as they were spoken in the midst of the General Strike:
“This strike is the best thing that ever happened to San Francisco. It’s costing us money, certainly. We have lost millions on the waterfront in the last few months. But it’s a good investment, a marvelous investment. It’s solving the labor problem for years to come.
Mark my words. When this nonsense is out of the way and the men have been driven back to their jobs, we won’t have to worry about them anymore. They’ll have learned their lesson. Not only do I believe we’ll never have another general strike, but I don’t think we’ll have a strike of any kind in San Francisco during this generation. Labor is licked.”
|
|
Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
|
|
BJ-Getting sick of the over priced and corrupt practices of the ILWU and their monopoly of ports is far from a war on unions Actually it is war in unions. Renegotiating contracts and busting strikes with scabs is part of the game- moving the jobs to Mexico or China or any other place amounts to war on American labor.
Isn't it obvious? The calculus is that every person with a middle class wage who can be replaced with a minimum level wage just means more of the pie for the 1%. Who's job is safe when you have such a vast effort to carve out more and more for the most powerful by means of a complicit government and state run news?
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
The calculus is that every person with a middle class wage who can be replaced with a minimum level wage just means more of the pie for the 1%. This ignores the reality of a competitive marketplace. In reality, it translates to cheaper sh!t for you to consume at Walmart.
The 1% are there because of compounding of assets in the markets - not offshoring of labor. The differences in labor costs are small money in comparison.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
The 1% are there because of compounding of assets in the markets
The 1% are there because they've been stealing our hard work for generations now.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
The differences in labor costs are small money in comparison.
Well, we're also offshoring our pollution costs which is no small cost either, but if the differences in labor costs were truly small money then the bulk of our consumer products wouldn't be made offshore.
|
|
jgfox
Trad climber
Long Beach, CA
|
|
Well, we're also offshoring our pollution costs which is no small cost either, but if the differences in labor costs were truly small money then the bulk of our consumer products wouldn't be made offshore.
Labor isn't the only cost to factor in when producing. There are logistic costs in moving material from one factory/refinery to the next. Real cheap to do so when China has massive industrial cities with factories right across the street from each other.
|
|
Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
|
|
Market forces don't mean sh!t when they're manipulated or nullified by oligarchs and do you really think you'll be sharing goods and services with 1%?
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
Market forces don't mean sh!t when they're manipulated or nullified The consumer is the real source of greed, the 1% are just taking advantage of it.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
|
|
The ILWU are the greedy ones...Don't they realize all the money belongs to the 1%...?
|
|
Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
|
|
So what is the mathematical outcome when eventually, no one can afford to shop at Walmart ? It'll be a slippery slope, sapping your will and diminishing your expectations.
1.Walmart Outlet
2. 99¢ Store
3. The back door of Panera at closing time
4. Soylent Green
|
|
Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
|
|
Madbolter.
😊 So it was indeed irritating. To the point you decided to skip that post totally? And me writing it purely for you, don't you appreciate that? Maybe you just don't like mellow happy?
Here, maybe this suits your mood better:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
You speak German? Verfolgungswahn by Holy Moses.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Lituya, it's great to know that some American workers make a good wage isn't it? Labor unions: MAGA!
|
|
Lituya
Mountain climber
|
|
You assume too much. In fact, I'm generally pro-union--for the private sector, anyhow. Should employees have any less right to negotiate wages together than PMA does to try and control them? No, IMO. And I don't begrudge anyone who, in good faith and without corruption, negotiated the best wage possible.
But what I really found interesting about the piece was this:
More than half of foremen and managers earn more than $200,000 each year. A few bosses make more than $300,000. All get free healthcare.
Sounds like some ILWU animals are more equal than others?
|
|
Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
|
|
I would like to remind anti-capitalism people that socialism failed everywhere except North Korea.
Have you actually tried to go to NK to observe that nice bright future?
If no, you need to hurry up because it would not survive for too long.
Do you really believe that American progressives are much smarter than such titans as Stalin, Mao, Castro and Pol Pot?
Do you have any reason to believe that such experiment would finally succeed in the US (after it failed everywhere else)?
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
😊 So it was indeed irritating. To the point you decided to skip that post totally? And me writing it purely for you, don't you appreciate that? Maybe you just don't like mellow happy?
LOL... no, I've just been weening myself off of the useless politard threads, so I just dropped in now to catch up. And I'm crafting this reply just for you too. 😊
Actually, I was impressed with that article! I quote just one passage from it: "Ten years ago, Sweden ranked no 17, but since then it has embarked upon a number of initiatives that have propelled it to the top. 'Over the past two decades the country has undergone a transformation built on deregulation and budget self-restraint with cuts to Sweden’s welfare state.'”
So, if the USA was 23 and Sweden was 17, that's not much of a difference. But what did Sweden do to rise to the top? Wellllll, it did what liberals here precisely do NOT want the USA to do.
I see a great irony in touting a liberal agenda while citing an article on success that itself correlates a non-liberal agenda with success.
In advance I'll say that it will probably be quite some time before I check in again. I find these threads increasingly boring and futile. For both sides of the aisle, everywhere they look they see confirmations of their perspectives. Neither perspective is falsifiable in principle, so both are akin to astrology in their predictive value. And both are as rabidly believed as is astrology by its own true-believers. Thus, discussion here is futile.
|
|
Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
|
|
Yes, futile in a way, but not in another.
What happened was that Sweden went up from 17 to 1 and 3, but USA was high and went down to 23 during the same time.We weren't at 17 and 23 at the same period of time. Both is still good, considering worldwide, but the numbers mostly tells about trends. I think it's like waves, it changes back and forth.
Country vs country: Sweden and United States compared: Cost of living stats
If one compares how it is to live in our countries, it comes out pretty equal: You get to keep 2% more of your income, but pay 28% more for utilities and 31% more for internet. On the other hand we pay 68% more to for a pair of Nikes (not the most common brand here) or to go the movies (almost 17 dollars instead of 10). Medical costs are not included. Do you pay for your insurances before or after income taxes?
Anyway, both economies needs the fuel of consumers. And consumers need a decent wage in order to be able to consume that little extra. Therefore it's important. The trickle down theory doesn't work. The economy needs to be substantial and suistanable.
Peace.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!