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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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I said not that poverty caused it.
There's a bunch of shitty people in LA is what I gather from your statement. Thought: live elsewhere?
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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How about enforce laws that already exist to secure the border, and insure that wherever people are from, they are not a danger others. no color consideration, none should be there at all, just risk.
Assess that for all and apply it evenly, but that cannot possibly happen if the same process for someone from Australia, or Zimbabwe, does not apply to Mexico. it is not fair to the rest of the world, and it is not safe for the residents of the US.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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I understand that you are afraid. Any suggestions that you might share as to "securing" the border? A wall is neat. What then about our seashores? Maybe some kind of netting like they use for sharks?
And what when they start catapaulting? Build it higher? I mean I did dig in a pretty good metal shield to keep out the tunneling moles from my yard. Perhaps a nice flashing strip over top the wall?
Confucius say: one win the war on drugs same day one secure all border from frightening Other.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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no PC filter, just who has committed crime in LA and is not detained
have a look for yourself:
So what do your "facts" show?
1) Hispanics are smarter than whites because they but haven't been caught?
2) Hispanic community is better than the white community at fingering the perps among them?
3) White police spend more effort trying to catch Hispanic criminals?
Lots of reasons for what you see on those lists, but no evidence that any ethnicity or culture has a higher inherent criminality than others.
TE
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Tom Lehrer used used to sing satirical songs about social and political issues in the 50's and 60's.
He defined an American patriot as someone who loves their country but hates 90% of the people in it.
in his song National Brotherhood Week there is a line about "To hate all but the right folks is as American as apple pie"
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Ed Bannister, lapdonline is #fakenews.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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A lot of intensity here, but I'd like to ask: Are some folks posting in this thread IN FAVOR of the flood of illegals across our borders? Do you think that's a good thing? Have no borders at all and everything will be fine? I'm genuinely curious.
I keep coming back to this: No rational person believes that we should have zero control over who comes in. So that necessitates some control. This means we have to do some vetting. It also means we have to set SOME limit on how many people get in. We should figure out what that number is, no doubt streamlining and civilizing the process by a lot. But guess what? Once that number is reached, we'll have to keep people out, restrict the flow, kick people out who don't meet whatever criteria we have, force companies that employ illegals to stop doing so. Every country in the world does this. People--probably lots of good, hardworking, honest people--won't be able to get in, and that will be too bad. I hope one day grownups will be in charge. Right now, it's insane.
BAd
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798
http://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states
The Criminalization of Immigration in the United States Immigration and Crime
By Walter Ewing, Ph.D., Daniel E. Martínez, Ph.D. and Rubén G. Rumbaut, Ph.D.
July 13, 2015
For more than a century, innumerable studies have confirmed two simple yet powerful truths about the relationship between immigration and crime: immigrants are less likely to commit serious crimes or be behind bars than the native-born, and high rates of immigration are associated with lower rates of violent crime and property crime. This holds true for both legal immigrants and the unauthorized, regardless of their country of origin or level of education. In other words, the overwhelming majority of immigrants are not “criminals” by any commonly accepted definition of the term. For this reason, harsh immigration policies are not effective in fighting crime. Unfortunately, immigration policy is frequently shaped more by fear and stereotype than by empirical evidence. As a result, immigrants have the stigma of “criminality” ascribed to them by an ever-evolving assortment of laws and immigration-enforcement mechanisms. Put differently, immigrants are being defined more and more as threats. Whole new classes of “felonies” have been created which apply only to immigrants, deportation has become a punishment for even minor offenses, and policies aimed at trying to end unauthorized immigration have been made more punitive rather than more rational and practical. In short, immigrants themselves are being criminalized.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07418825.2012.659200?journalCode=rjqy20
An Examination of First and Second Generation Immigrant Offending Trajectories
Bianca E. Bersani
The myth of the criminal immigrant has permeated public and political debate for much of this nation's history and persists despite growing evidence to the contrary. Crime concerns are increasingly aimed at the indirect impact of immigration on crime highlighting the criminal pursuits of the children of immigrants. Adding to extant knowledge on the immigration-crime nexus, this research asks whether immigrants are differentially involved in crime by examining immigrant offending histories (prevalence, frequency, seriousness, persistence, and desistance) from early adolescence to young adulthood. Particular attention is afforded to the influence of various sources of heterogeneity including: generational and nativity status, and crime type. Results suggest that the myth remains; trajectory analyses reveal that immigrants are no more crime-prone than the native-born. Foreign-born individuals exhibit remarkably low levels of involvement in crime across their life course. Moreover, it appears that by the second generation, immigrants have simply caught up to their native-born counterparts in respect to their offending. Implications of the findings for theory and future research are discussed.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/15/crime-rises-among-second-generation-immigrants-as-they-assimilate/
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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http://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/does_immigration_increase_crime
Does Immigration Increase Crime?
Nationwide statistics suggest no impact on violent crime.
Based on the research of Jörg L. Spenkuch
Immigration is central to the founding myth of the United States as the “land of opportunity.” Yet throughout the nation’s history, tension between immigrants and so-called “natives”—who are almost always descendants of immigrants themselves—has existed. One especially persistent assumption is that immigration is associated with an increase in crime. “When you look at opinion surveys, three-quarters of Americans believe that immigration increases crime,” says Jörg Spenkuch, an assistant professor of managerial economics and decision sciences at Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management. In a recent paper, Spenkuch investigated the validity of this assumption. “It’s an empirical question,” Spenkuch says. “I wanted to know whether crime rates go up when immigrants come into the country—plain and simple.” He found that, contrary to the assumptions of many Americans, the answer was a clear “no” for violent crime. He did, however, note that a small uptick in property crimes could be associated with increased immigration.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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http://www.policefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Appendix-D_0.pdf
Undocumented Immigration and Rates of Crime and Imprisonment: Popular Myths and Empirical Realities
by Rubén G. Rumbaut
Introduction
The perception that the foreign-born, especially “illegal aliens,” are responsible for higher crime rates is deeply rooted in American public opinion and is sustained by media anecdote and popular myth. In the absence of rigorous empirical research, stereotypes about immigrants and crime often provide the underpinnings for public policies and practices, and shape public opinion and political behavior (Chávez 2001; Hagan and Palloni 1999; Lee 2003; Martínez and Valenzuela 2006). Such stereotypes, reinforced through popular movies and television programs and fueled by media coverage of singular events, project an enduring image of immigrant communities permeated by criminal elements...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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http://www.researchgate.net/publication/256081616_Undocumented_Immigrants_as_Perceived_Criminal_Threat_A_Test_of_the_Minority_Threat_Perspective
Threat: A Test of the Minority Threat Perspective
Criminology 50(3):743-776 · August 2012
Xia Wang
Arizona State University
Abstract
The link between immigration and crime has garnered considerable attention from researchers. Although the weight of evidence suggests that immigration is not linked to crime, the public consistently views immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, as criminal and thus a threat to social order. However, little attention has been paid to why they are perceived this way. By drawing on the minority threat perspective, this article investigates the effects of objective and perceptual measures of community context on perceived criminal threat from undocumented immigrants. Analyses of data collected from four Southwest states and the U.S. Census show that the perceived size of the undocumented immigrant population, more so than the actual size of the immigrant population and economic conditions, is positively associated with perceptions of undocumented immigrants as a criminal threat. Additional analyses show that objective measures of community context do not affect native respondents’ perceptions of the size of the undocumented immigrant population. The study's findings and their implications for theory, research, and policy are discussed.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/cacounts/CC_208KBCC.pdf
Crime, Corrections, and California
What Does Immigration Have to Do with It?
By Kristin F. Butcher and Anne Morrison Piehl
This California Counts presents evidence on individual institutionalization rates and city-level crime rates. We find that the foreign-born have low rates of incarceration and institutionalization, and that these rates hold true across education and region-of-origin subgroups.
Even for those immigrants with demographic characteristics that, among the U.S.-born, are positively correlated with jail and prison time, we find low rates of institutionalization. For example, among foreign-born men ages 18–40 with less than a high school diploma, the institutionalization rate is 0.5 percent. Among the U.S.-born with less than a high school diploma, the rate is 13.4 percent. In fact, only U.S.-born men ages 18-40 with a college degree or higher have lower institutionalization rates than the average among the foreign-born.
On city-level crime rates—a broad measure of public safety— our evidence suggests that, between 2000 and 2005, cities with higher rates of newly arrived immigrants had, if anything, a greater decline in crime rates than cities with lower rates of newly arrived immigrants.
Altogether, this evidence suggests that immigrants have very low rates of criminal activity in California. Note that this finding is consistent with national studies on immigration and crime, which also find low rates of criminal activity for the foreign-born. Indeed, a review of the literature (Mears, 2002) noted that the published academic literature on the criminal activity of the foreign-born does not contain a counter claim.
Immigration policy reform must take into account many factors in addition to the public safety issues addressed here. However, our results suggest that several of the reforms currently under consideration would do little to improve public safety. In particular, from a public safety stand- point, there would be little reason to further limit immigration, to favor entry by high-skilled immigrants, or to increase penalties against criminal immigrants.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Social Security?
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf
Conclusion
While unauthorized immigrants worked and contributed as much as $13 billion in payroll taxes to the OASDI program in 2010, only about $1 billion in benefit payments during 2010 are attributable to unauthorized work. Thus, we estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010. We estimate that future years will experience a continuation of this positive impact on the trust funds...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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http://www.nber.org/papers/w13229
Why are Immigrants' Incarceration Rates so Low? Evidence on Selective Immigration, Deterrence, and Deportation
Kristin F. Butcher, Anne Morrison Piehl
NBER Working Paper No. 13229
Issued in July 2007
The perception that immigration adversely affects crime rates led to legislation in the 1990s that particularly increased punishment of criminal aliens. In fact, immigrants have much lower institutionalization (incarceration) rates than the native born -on the order of one-fifth the rate of natives. More recently arrived immigrants have the lowest relative incarceration rates, and this difference increased from 1980 to 2000. We examine whether the improvement in immigrants' relative incarceration rates over the last three decades is linked to increased deportation, immigrant self-selection, or deterrence. Our evidence suggests that deportation does not drive the results. Rather, the process of migration selects individuals who either have lower criminal propensities or are more responsive to deterrent effects than the average native. Immigrants who were already in the country reduced their relative institutionalization probability over the decades; and the newly arrived immigrants in the 1980s and 1990s seem to be particularly unlikely to be involved in criminal activity, consistent with increasingly positive selection along this dimension.
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