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fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 10, 2017 - 11:01am PT
What happens when the monopoly goes away with legalization?

Then you really want to be holding Phillip Morris stock.

pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jan 10, 2017 - 11:11am PT
Back on topic,
To any hydrologists here,
Is there a reason we don't replenish existing underground aquifers using the water from intense storms?
Is it possible?
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Jan 10, 2017 - 11:12am PT
In Washington the cost to the consumer was cut in half post legalization...

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 10, 2017 - 11:32am PT
In Washington the cost to the consumer was cut in half post legalization...

Can we take rhat to imply it's a good thing? That is to say along with the rise in auto accidents and the marked rise in teen use.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Jan 10, 2017 - 11:35am PT
To any hydrologists here,
Is there a reason we don't replenish existing underground aquifers using the water from intense storms?
Is it possible?

I posted about this up thread...here's some more info RE your questions...

Increasing subsurface storage is the way to go but this requires interagency cooperation, water rights issues/cooperation/resolution, cost $$$, and requires infrastructure upgrades but can be done using engineered recharge basins, injection wells, infiltration galleries, long horizontal injection wells, etc...


E.g., the Mokelumne River Watershed Authority & NE San Joaquin County Groundwater Banking Authority...
Upper Mokelumne River Watershed Authority &
the Northeastern San Joaquin County Groundwater Banking Authority
PRESS RELEASE
April 1, 2015 • For Immediate Release
Contacts: Rob Alcott for the Upper Mokelumne River Watershed Authority (707-785-1008) Brandon Nakagawa for the San Joaquin County Groundwater Basin Authority (209-953-7460)

Mokelumne Watershed Interregional Sustainability Evaluation (MokeWISE) Program
The Mokelumne Collaborative Group will host a Community Outreach Workshop on April 9
It’s your watershed, your future -- your voice matters!
In the midst of one of California’s most severe droughts on record, a diverse group of stakeholders continues to work on developing a broadly-supported water resources plan that will help us prepare for an uncertain water future. The Mokelumne Collaborative Group (MCG), made up by agencies and organizations interested in Mokelumne River watershed issues from the Sierras to the Delta, is steadily working to develop the MokeWISE water resources plan. Public input into the plan is being solicited at multiple points along the path. This is one of those junctures.
In developing the MokeWISE program the MCG is evaluating a variety of potential water supply sources including stormwater, recycled water, Mokelumne River surface water, groundwater, desalination, and conservation. To achieve an integrated and collaborative water management strategy the MCG will identify those projects and actions with the broadest support among participating stakeholders and develop a multi-regional plan to implement a preferred program. The plan will include projects and programs designed to enhance the sustainability of the Mokelumne’s water resources for present and future generations. While MokeWISE will not mitigate the current drought, it may well position regional stakeholders to better manage the consequences of future droughts.


More info can be found here...

http://waterinthewest.stanford.edu/groundwater/recharge/

https://ca.water.usgs.gov/projects/central-valley/san-joaquin-basin-workshop.html
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jan 10, 2017 - 11:52am PT
Thanks TT !

Some one should put this bug in Trump's ear.
If he thinks he'd get credit for the idea, I'm pretty darn sure he'd find a way to finance it.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jan 10, 2017 - 12:12pm PT
Thanks T_T ..... thats the most sensible thing, seems like a pretty cheap partial solution.

Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jan 10, 2017 - 12:33pm PT
Oh you tradster you!!

The last couple posts in this thread keep ST alive and why it pays to swing by.
Thanks for the info/links TT.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Jan 10, 2017 - 01:12pm PT
weed & water....Together we can make Cali green again ;-)
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 10, 2017 - 04:26pm PT
Congrats to the Mokelumne folks for the approach, which mirrors what the water managers have done in LA for the last 20 or so years. And it pays off.

The big problems have to do with what TT posts---conflicting interests that bog things down.

In my neck of the woods, I'm part of a coalition that champions approaches that can be carried out by individual stakeholders on their own properties. A thousand gallons in a rainstorm captured is not a lot, but when you do it on 3 million properties, now you're talking billions of gallons. And it doesn't involve massive infrastructure, massive debt structure, massive permitting processes, or even massive tools. It pretty much takes a shovel.

You can go out and do it today.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 10, 2017 - 04:58pm PT
Water collected in residential areas is extremely contaminated, especially when collected from roofs. The amount of bird crap is surprising. Anyone who spends more than 20 minutes a day outside probably has had bird sh#t in their hair. Not necessarily a huge blob, but micro blobs, everywhere. The water is still good for irrigation. I have about 200 gallons of storage capacity.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 10, 2017 - 05:11pm PT
California is still one of the centers of the universe.

Albert Hofmann's accidental bicycle ride....>....> made it's way to California....>.....>.....> which evolved into the Grateful Dead.

Suck on that world!
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jan 10, 2017 - 05:14pm PT
In my neck of the woods, I'm part of a coalition that champions approaches that can be carried out by individual stakeholders on their own properties. A thousand gallons in a rainstorm captured is not a lot, but when you do it on 3 million properties, now you're talking billions of gallons. And it doesn't involve massive infrastructure, massive debt structure, massive permitting processes, or even massive tools. It pretty much takes a shovel.


Ken.... I have read what you pointed to way way up thread, permeable streets etc... Please explain what incentive is there for people to do this. From where I sit- private citizen - I see this: when DWP calls for all of us to save water, I went and installed two low flow toilets-- the old ones were doing a great job... fixed some dripping faucets etc. Doing this caused me some unnecessary out of pocket expenses BUT it did lower the amount of water my family used.

So what did the DWP do? They raised my rates to make up for the money they lost.... to me it seams like a losing deal.

Another thing along the same lines.... WE all are driving much more fuel efficient cars and trucks. We are using less fuel overall. What does the CALIFORNIA STATE GOVERNMENT do... why they increase the car tax, increase the fuel tax and increase every other tax associated with transportation, to make up for the loss of $$$$.

I mean WTF????

I guess we (tax paying citizens) are just the ATM for the state government for all and every thing they wish to do.

So when I read Blueys original post about what he sees as issues... I think he has a good point.

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Jan 10, 2017 - 05:33pm PT
Household collection of rainwater during storms for non-potable use is an excellent idea and should be encouraged. But that's a very different scale than groundwater basin-scale artificial recharge of aquifers.

I'd much rather see taxpayer $$$ spent on artificial recharge than anymore Dams. The technical challenges include selecting & engineering the appropriate artificial recharge method, selecting the optimal location spatially & vertically for subsurface injection, and maintaining these installations long term. For example, in the Tulare Basin, you probably want to target aquifer recharge beneath the Corcoran Clay.
couchmaster

climber
Jan 10, 2017 - 07:51pm PT

THANKS GOVERNOR BROWN!!! 350 billion gallons of water just saved. Suck on that Bluering! Read it and weep: http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/01/09/california-storms-fill-drought-parched-reservoirs/


"The powerful storms that soaked Northern California over the past week did more than trigger power outages, mudslides and flash floods. They sent roughly 350 billion gallons of water pouring into California’s biggest reservoirs — boosting their storage to levels not seen in years, forcing dam operators to release water to reduce flood risks and all but ending the five-year drought across much of Northern California, even though it remains in the south, experts said Monday."

zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 10, 2017 - 08:42pm PT
I just want to whine about something too.

How about Baja California.

They don't have any water either and they pump sheeit into the surfing area known as The Sloughs.

AND DON'T FORGET ALL THE MURDERS.

The city of Tijuana, located just about 129 miles south of the border from Los Angles, has always been known as a popular weekend getaway for American college students to cut loose. But with over 900 homicides due to drug-related violence in 2016, it has been a most violent year for the more than 1.7 million residents.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 11, 2017 - 12:12am PT
Reasonable questions, let me take a crack.

when DWP calls for all of us to save water, I went and installed two low flow toilets-- the old ones were doing a great job... fixed some dripping faucets etc. Doing this caused me some unnecessary out of pocket expenses BUT it did lower the amount of water my family used.

So what did the DWP do? They raised my rates to make up for the money they lost.... to me it seams like a losing deal.

This was actually an illusion, which I am among the first to criticize DWP for not explaining well.

The context is the drought. In the drought, we got very little water from the Eastern Sierra---normally about 1/3-1/2 of our water. Very cheap water, lets say $200/ac-f. Instead, we had to import it from MWD from Sacto or Arizona. Very expensive, like $900/ac-f. The difference in cost is a simple pass-through, it does not require rate restructuring.

We DID have a recent rate increase, however, this was in large part to create a previously non-existent progressive rate by amount used----if you use exceptional amounts, it costs quite a bit more. If you are thrifty, hardly any more.

The reason for this was not to recoup money lost in conservation, so much as to provide funding for upgrades and repairs to infrastructure, which had generated a lot of "deferral" during the recession, when money was tight.

LADWP water is quite cheap, compared with other vendors, and the quality is very high. But it's also a three-ring circus.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 11, 2017 - 12:16am PT
Another thing along the same lines.... WE all are driving much more fuel efficient cars and trucks. We are using less fuel overall. What does the CALIFORNIA STATE GOVERNMENT do... why they increase the car tax, increase the fuel tax and increase every other tax associated with transportation, to make up for the loss of $$$$.

I mean WTF????

Ok, you're the guy in charge.

As you've observed, conservation and efficiency has resulted in a big decrease in fuel usage-----except the tax on that usage is the ONLY source of money to maintain roads throughout the State. With a vast decrease in available money, guess what is happening to the roads/bridges/freeways?

That same "deferred maintenance", which means more potholes which destroys our cars, wears out our tires, etc.

What would you do, Governor?
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 11, 2017 - 07:26am PT
I posted about this up thread...here's some more info RE your questions...

Increasing subsurface storage is the way to go but this requires interagency cooperation, water rights issues/cooperation/resolution, cost $$$, and requires infrastructure upgrades but can be done using engineered recharge basins, injection wells, infiltration galleries, long horizontal injection wells, etc...

I would think the viability of this option could be threatened by mass deregulation of the oil, gas, nuclear and mining operations, and in particular, pipelines. Add to that, the increased access to public lands by such entities.

No government agency would be willing to risk a massive litigation nightmare after exposing water consumers to even minutely tainted water.

California is going to have a huge fight on their hand in upholding just the basic components of good governance- safe food, clean air, clean water. I hope, in spite of a perceived mandate by Trump and his supporters, the State will sue and stall the Feds until the next election.




Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Jan 11, 2017 - 07:59am PT
Yep.

LA water is good.

LA air is good.

Jerry Brown is a good governor.

The coffee is great.

The food scene in LA is the best in the history of man on Earth.

We are good people in good times.
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