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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Barf.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Good grief, I'm not balding. I have ever single hair left on my head. If only the rest of my body were doing as well!
No, Steve, I don't support adding unnecessary bolts.
That being said, I am appalled at the lynchmob mentality on this forum, where people get all butthurt without knowing all the facts.
And I still don't understand why people get all upset about some added rappel bolts, which don't affect the difficulty of climbing the route, and yet don't seem concerned about lead bolts, which do affect the leadability of the route.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Just throwing a log on the fire. It's raining like a cow pissing on a flat rock here. I could use some entertainment. Nothing funnier than a worked up sputtering Canadian. Eh?
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cavemonkey
Ice climber
ak
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Maybe thinning is a better descrptor u wanker ;)
Love how climbing is a self policed community but also
Love doing whatev the fahq i want
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Pete looks like sh#t There's the lynch mob mentality Pete was talking about...perfect example..
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Pete- This is just the latest incident in a long series as you well know.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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F has been watching comedy central roast he's all psyched to try out some new stuff
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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My hair is not THINNING either!!!!
Geez, my hair is about the only thing I've got going for me. I've got weiner arms, a frankenankle, a goofy grin and knobby knees. Just ask Tami.
But Merry Braun once said I have nice legs. ;)
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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The point I was trying to make - before you got into a discussion of just how cute Anita really is, and Pete's nose hair(s) - is that numerous bolts have been added to many routes on El Cap since they were first climbed. For example, the Salathe Wall originally had 13 bolts, and the climbers justly took pride in using natural anchors. (OK, mostly pitons in cracks.) It has over 30 pitches - and it seems a safe bet that there are now two or more bolts at every belay, almost all added - mostly out of convenience rather than necessity. Still, a total of 75 or more. Plus any climbing bolts that may have been removed or (more likely) added.
Someone like Clint may have exact numbers about these things.
An argument can be made that often-ascended routes, especially if moderate, should have bolt belays. The many routes that have numerous added belay bolts aren't likely to revert to what they were, even if there are good natural anchors at the same locations as the new bolts. And in some cases added belay bolts also provide needed rappel anchors. But it is a slippery slope.
The problem with modern rappel routes is varying lengths of ropes - 60, 70, and 80 m (aka dental floss). And that a few go on long routes with only one rope. Should there be fixed rappel anchors to suit all rope lengths, as well as for those with two ropes? We'd then have (if needed) anchors 29, 34, 39, 59, 69 and 79 m apart, plus possibly permutations for those with say one 60 and one 70 m rope. Just so that no one is inconvenienced, you know? Or is it wiser if climbers are told "This is a big wall, and is difficult and dangerous. You need to be prepared. If there is a rappel route using fixed anchors, you will need two ropes that are 50 m+ in length to use them. Be prepared to have to leave your own anchors."
Werner may be interested that Canada may soon adopt the northern loon as its national bird. (The loon is already on our $1 coin, the loonie.) But it's a happy loon, not a cranky one. http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadians-pick-common-loon-as-favourite-to-become-country-s-national-bird-1.3057224
Quack quack.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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lot's of good coin flips here!
The only part i can't discern, if you don't like a bolt; Then don't fckin clip IT!
the only one that cares how you did a rte, is YOU.
unless of course your Alex H., when hearing of all you gonads drop to your knees
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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One thing a lot of climbers agree on is that before altering a route, one should check with those that did the first ascent.
I realize the Nose is, in some way at least, public property now, but I wonder what Wayne would say if Eric asked him directly. All he's said here is "Sigh," but that may be more a sign of resignation than anything else.
And I also wonder whether Eric ever thinks about asking the people who put up the climbs he's modifying whether they think it's a good idea or not.
Not that first ascentionists somehow own the routes they put up, but sometimes they have opinions worth listening to.
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RyanD
climber
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Great sports action here while I was out climbing.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Please name the new rappel line Plastic Swords.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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It saddens Tom Frost to hear that every belay stance on the Salathe Wall is now bolted when he, Royal and Chuck needed none past pitch 5.
Sloan has the unmitigated audacity to say that Tom is behind what he is doing these days which is pure shameless BS.
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RyanD
climber
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So even though I might sound like a boulder bolting loon I will make an attempt at a semi serious post. It's been awhile.
I think the biggest problem with the whole Sloan thing is how nobody really cares enough to put a stop to it.
I mean everyone virtually cares on here, the worldwide web, for sure.
It's easy.
But it takes at least 700 posts over weeks just to get a single Sloan anchor removed. When in reality time it could be done much faster.
I'll use Squamish as an example, it may not be the best, but I am familiar with it and can speak from experience. Even though everything is bolted to sh#t around here we can at least proudly say that the place is chopped to sh#t as well. The community regulates bolts on existing routes and unnecessary squeeze jobs as well as replacing sub standard fixed gear pretty well. At some points since I've lived and actively climbed in Squamish for almost 15 years it has been really bad and entire crags have been chopped and refitted, then chopped again then refitted again. I'm sure lotsa sh#t like that happened here way before I was a twinkle in my daddy's eye too. Lots of climbs have been ruined, scarred or closed. But in the end, extra bolts are often removed quickly, and with little fanfare. If the bolt appears again, it's gone again. Until it doesn't come back.
On the other hand, it's been noticed that some old climbs here have actually been gasp.....retro bolted!!!! With permission!!!!!!
Now there is death routes that had been climbed 8 times in 30 years and were covered in moss and dirt that are neo-classiqué clip ups.
Even mighty hiker is involved in some way, and it is rumoured he has found time to defend the grail of all that is trad and shear at least a few bristlers on The only single pitch with a gear anchor in an area with 1000 routes all with bolted anchors. This climb is right by my house and when I sit in my backyard everyday I can hear couples arguing and n00bs shouting in peril because they can't find an anchor. Then they yell rock as they kick rocks down the cliff when they walk over to one of the other stations, which both go down busy routes that get climbed by numerous parties daily. Even though this is annoying as all hell and an anchor makes sense for a lot of reasons. I still respect Mighty Hikers wishes to keep this climb free of a bolted anchor and will surely go up there and chop it if the shouting ever stops. That said I think he has also added bolts to existing routes, with permission of course.
Many nameless others have also sacrificed their time to clean up a useless fixed line or remove trash from the crags along with the chopchopchopping.. I think that we are really lucky to have these types of people around, as well as an open, modern ethic when it comes to establishing new routes. We have lots of awesome new routes.
If you care about the place and climbs enough you can always do something more than supertopoo. No disrespect intended to anyone here, but the online local stewardship for the valley is not that effective in dealing with the problem, which is the problem, if there even is a problem?
Why doesn't someone just double rope rap once and chop it if it's that big of a deal?
Or just keep taking the hangers, again and again.
It seems some of you guys forget that you are as free to take Sloans sh#t down as he is to hang it up.
This is the very basis of the dick wagging that our sacrilege is built upon.
Freedom dudes.
You just need to get out there.
Me?
I don't mind climbing with one 70m rope ;-)
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Well said Ryan, I will end my ban hunt on you I guess.
If anyone missed it, the Stoney point thread dealt with a chop in less than 40 posts and a few days. All this community talk is worthless on the Internet. Bolt wars are one of the ugliest parts of climbing and I am not suggesting it needs to be done, but like many have said bitching about sloan on here really doesn't solve anything, in fact I think it makes the whole situation worse.
Grossman I respect what you have put up and think you have a valid argument and don't see you as a pussy. You definitely come off as a dick though. Maybe you are fine with that and I'm not saying you should change if you are, but I tend to not listen to your rants because of this fact.
Anders, great hearing your thoughts, I actually want to read them, even if I don't share all your views. I wouldn't consider myself either antiloon or proloon, so could be considered both I guess.
One great thing about Sloan is he makes us discuss climbing!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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I came on this forum years ago saying "characterize me any way that you want to but think about what I am saying" and I still hold to that.
Unless you follow these conflicts closely (and ones like the WOS are exhaustive LOL) then it is easy to form an opinion based on tone. I have strong opinions about conduct that I think matters in the arena of climbing.
I did everything quietly and by example while I was actively climbing and establishing routes but that doesn't cut it these days in my estimation.
A handful of people get barbed by my presence on this forum because they are dishonest or destructive in my estimation.
If that bugs you, sorry. Do you really think that Richard Jensen or Pete are swell reserved guys in their postings here?
How do you feel about dumbing down Valley routes BJ?
I do listen to feedback from folks and try to keep it civil and I am certainly aware that voicing my views has a downside. thanks for speaking your mind. I do appreciate your perspective.
Like any male, I can certainly be a dick or at least have one.
Climbing has been a contentious activity for the 46 years that I have been involved in it and internet forums are certainly no different.
Pulling bolts and properly patching the holes is really sad and time consuming work so forgive me if I come on strong getting bent about it. Bolt wars make all of us look bad in the eyes of the NPS and rock damage and route degradation is the last thing any climber with a soul wants to see.
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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"characterize me any way that you want to but think about what I am saying" It’s hard for me to give your thoughts an honest go, because your tone seems to be stuck in "f*#k you if you don’t agree with me." Which is fine, but if you really want people to think about what you have to say, you might want to figure a different way to portray it.
Really like the attitude that you let your climbing an actions be examples.
As far as Pete and Richard Jenkins Jensen, their opinions are just as valid as yours. The whole climbing has been contentious for your whole 46 years involvement in it, all I can say is why would you want anything to do with it if that's the case?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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People come into climbing with very different needs, perspectives and levels of commitment. Everybody on this forum is entitled to their opinion and also entitled to disagree or support what they like.
I have walked away from WOS discussions because they have become degenerate and honestly try to avoid taking shots at others here as best I can.
If you think the tone of discussion is too hot here you should have been around in the 1970s when the clean climbing revolution was happening. Without directly and sometimes rather harshly calling folks out about hammering and degrading the resource it wouldn't have. Four decades later and I am still trying to get wall climbers to lay off the hammer.
I love climbing and climbers and the arguments are just part of the scene and always have been. Taking a clear and solid position ethical position is in the finest traditions of alpinism.
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