Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
^^^^ And that isn't a huge part of the problem?
If you can't talk no problem will ever get fixed, will it?
Jonny is pissed but at least I think he wants to talk.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
I will reprise my recommendation to read Sam Harris' excellent article "The Riddle of the Gun."
Here's the first few paragraphs. Do read the rest, if you've any semblance of an open mind.
Fantasists and zealots can be found on both sides of the debate over guns in America. On the one hand, many gun-rights advocates reject even the most sensible restrictions on the sale of weapons to the public. On the other, proponents of stricter gun laws often seem unable to understand why a good person would ever want ready access to a loaded firearm. Between these two extremes we must find grounds for a rational discussion about the problem of gun violence.
Unlike most Americans, I stand on both sides of this debate. I understand the apprehension that many people feel toward “gun culture,” and I share their outrage over the political influence of the National Rifle Association. How is it that we live in a society in which one of the most compelling interests is gun ownership? Where is the science lobby? The safe food lobby? Where is the get-the-Chinese-lead-paint-out-of-our-kids’-toys lobby? When viewed from any other civilized society on earth, the primacy of guns in American life seems to be a symptom of collective psychosis.
Most of my friends do not own guns and never will. When asked to consider the possibility of keeping firearms for protection, they worry that the mere presence of them in their homes would put themselves and their families in danger. Can’t a gun go off by accident? Wouldn’t it be more likely to be used against them in an altercation with a criminal? I am surrounded by otherwise intelligent people who imagine that the ability to dial 911 is all the protection against violence a sane person ever needs.
But, unlike my friends, I own several guns and train with them regularly. Every month or two, I spend a full day shooting with a highly qualified instructor. This is an expensive and time-consuming habit, but I view it as part of my responsibility as a gun owner. It is true that my work as a writer has added to my security concerns somewhat, but my involvement with guns goes back decades. I have always wanted to be able to protect myself and my family, and I have never had any illusions about how quickly the police can respond when called. I have expressed my views on self-defense elsewhere. Suffice it to say, if a person enters your home for the purpose of harming you, you cannot reasonably expect the police to arrive in time to stop him. This is not the fault of the police—it is a problem of physics.
Like most gun owners, I understand the ethical importance of guns and cannot honestly wish for a world without them. I suspect that sentiment will shock many readers. Wouldn’t any decent person wish for a world without guns? In my view, only someone who doesn’t understand violence could wish for such a world. A world without guns is one in which the most aggressive men can do more or less anything they want. It is a world in which a man with a knife can rape and murder a woman in the presence of a dozen witnesses, and none will find the courage to intervene. There have been cases of prison guards (who generally do not carry guns) helplessly standing by as one of their own was stabbed to death by a lone prisoner armed with an improvised blade. The hesitation of bystanders in these situations makes perfect sense—and “diffusion of responsibility” has little to do with it. The fantasies of many martial artists aside, to go unarmed against a person with a knife is to put oneself in very real peril, regardless of one’s training. The same can be said of attacks involving multiple assailants. A world without guns is a world in which no man, not even a member of Seal Team Six, can reasonably expect to prevail over more than one determined attacker at a time. A world without guns, therefore, is one in which the advantages of youth, size, strength, aggression, and sheer numbers are almost always decisive. Who could be nostalgic for such a world?
https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun
|
|
Coach37
Social climber
Philly
|
|
You guys that write these multi-thousand word diatribes on here? The full tilt "wall-o-text" posts?
Nobody actually reads those, so save yourself some time. Unless it doubles as your therapy, then by all means continue screaming into the void.
|
|
Lurkingtard
climber
|
|
Oh like I could ever pry it out of your mouth.
Lol. Gud one. Looks like cmac deleted your butt plug.
Cheers
~LT
Edit. Btw never go ass to mouth.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
then by all means continue screaming into the void.
Are you the void we're "screaming into"? You probably missed that I only suggested reading
Sam Harris IF you had any semblance of an open mind, or any mind I should have added.
I know yer probably way smarter and more literate than some chump with a BA in philosophy
from Stanford and a PhD in neuroscience from UCLA.
|
|
jonnyrig
climber
|
|
Interesting read. Can't say I agree with everything; but that's the nature of differing opinions. Could stand to be updated. Video links were also interesting. I, in my office, and standing in front of a classroom, am vulnerable to an active shooter, and don't have much in the way of exits or weapons to fight with. Do I carry in violation of state law and institutional policy? Do I keep the job and just accept the risk? Well, it's a low risk until it happens, now isn't it?
I don't feel much risk. The consequences are so high though. Like flying and the odds of going down on a plane. I hate flying. And I'm doing a lot of it this year.
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
good on you Jonnyrig.... sometimes one must express, you know git out of your system...
A mental sh#t .... thats what an old boss usta tell me.
It works.
I think this whole deal is nothing more than the logical extension of the Clinton, Bush, Obama years of governing.... tons of folks are finally seeing the the game is RIGGED... against them.
and not to far from home... last weekend I got to witness 2 armed thugs from the Inyo Sheriffs department.... slam my drunk friend to the ground for doing what was asked of him.... "stand up sir" ... "YOU MOVED F*#KER!!" .....bam, on the deck... those guys are quick to slam.
your going to Jail.
and they were all white.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
Reilly-Thanks for turning me on to Sam Harris. Most interesting. I am now a subscriber. The PhD in neuroscience at UCLA is a major league credential in my eyes :-)
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
|
Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
|
Toker back to how things should be, and JRigg , excellent not that it will help
Your hart and mind, won over, once, maybe a little?
now on reevaluation some things this society has just gotten wrong.
The Chinese are to blame let's start a ground war, in Iraq ...,
All in for love?
love of gods, money guns N countries where we can elect a Trump
200
|
|
Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
|
|
"Guns Live's Matter!"
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
Glad I live in Canada.
So you say now, Wayne. But just you wait... One of these days, you, or someone you love, will be cornered by a crazed beaver. It'll take more than waving a maple leaf at it for you to survive.
|
|
Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
|
One of these days, you, or someone you love, will be cornered by a crazed beaver
You say that in jest, however.... A cornered beaver is not a fun predicament. Had one live-snared a few years back- 80 pounder - and let me tell you he was a pissed off critter the size of a large Rottweiler with bigger teeth.
Having a gun is handy in those situations. Nothing will compare to a pissed off otter however, water wolverines they are.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
|
|
More interesting reading:
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/september/fbi-releases-study-on-active-shooter-incidents/pdfs/a-study-of-active-shooter-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013
Resolutions
The majority of the 160 incidents (90 [56.3%]) ended on the shooter’s initiative—
sometimes when the shooter committed suicide or stopped shooting, and other times when
the shooter fled the scene.
There were at least 25 incidents where the shooter fled the scene before police arrived. In 4
additional incidents, at least 5 shooters fled the scene and were still at large at the time the
study results were released.
In other incidents, it was a combination of actions by citizens and/or law enforcement that
ended the shootings. In at least 65 (40.6%) of the 160 incidents, citizen engagement or the
shooter committing suicide ended the shooting at the scene before law enforcement arrived.
Of those:
■■ In 37 incidents (23.1%), the shooter committed suicide at the scene before police
arrived.
■■ In 21 incidents (13.1%), the situation ended after unarmed citizens safely and successfully
restrained the shooter. In 2 of those incidents, 3 off-duty law enforcement
officers were present and assisted.
■■ Of note, 11 of the incidents involved unarmed principals, teachers, other school
staff and students who confronted shooters to end the threat (9 of those shooters
were students).
■■ In 5 incidents (3.1%), the shooting ended after armed individuals who were not law
enforcement personnel exchanged gunfire with the shooters. In these incidents, 3 shooters
were killed, 1 was wounded, and 1 committed suicide.
■■ The individuals involved in these shootings included a citizen with a valid firearms
permit and armed security guards at a church, an airline counter, a federally
managed museum, and a school board meeting.25
■■ In 2 incidents (1.3%), 2 armed, off-duty police officers engaged the shooters, resulting
in the death of the shooters. In 1 of those incidents, the off-duty officer assisted a
responding officer to end the threat.26
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
Jeremy Ross: You'll have to throw a Molson at that beaver. Don't get the 12 pack. 18 pack has more ammo.
Ok, that was funny.
(I used to live in London, Ontario.)
|
|
Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
|
|
I saw a Beaver that could blow smoke rings from a ciggie at a sideshow in TJ in 1976.
Never crossed my mind to throw a beer at it.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
I saw a Beaver that could blow smoke rings from a ciggie at a sideshow in TJ in 1976.
Could it shoot ping-pong balls across the room, too?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!