Bruce Jenner Gone

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BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:16pm PT
This is great! I wish we could all meet in person and discuss. Jesus did tell us if we had quibbles to meet in private and discuss. And this how a Christian should act toward Jenner.

Besides that, Klimmer you don't believe the laws of the OT pertain today do ya?


And who's Gene?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:23pm PT
Klimmer, since you're back with us, I've repeatedly asked a pressing question, and you have repeatedly ignored it.

Yet the answer to that question is the foundation of even discussing productively....

What attributes of a person do gender pronouns pick out or point to? You seem to "know" that Jenner was once a "man" and is trying to become a "woman". HOW do you know this? What about "him" made "him" a "him" before?

Chromosomes? Possessing a penis and testicles? A certain hormonal ratio? Manner of dress? All of the above? None of the above? Other attributes than the above?

What?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:24pm PT
I still believe faith is actionary.

Faith comes from hearing, and hearing, and hearing the Word...

Faith without works is dead...

Next time you use the word faith, think about replacing it with trust or believe, and decipher the difference.
MikeL

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:28pm PT
Ricky: It's a noun. You don't get to redefine that.

Well, .. . you do.

Nouns are what a community decides they are. There are no nouns that are defined completely in any dictionary. The dictionary is a report, not a concrete standard.

That would hold true for the term, “woman.” It’s a term that’s socially constructed. It changes with time.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:34pm PT
Ha Ha! Prolly same holds true for "man" too, eh?
Thanks MikeL : )
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:47pm PT
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 4, 2015 - 12:04am PT
Jesus must weep when we refuse to talk about Him : (
dirtbag

climber
Jun 4, 2015 - 05:18am PT
Klimmer, get help.

And quit teaching kids science.
Gary

Social climber
From A Buick 6
Jun 4, 2015 - 05:31am PT
"In the Law, transvestism / transvestitism was specifically forbidden: “A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this” (Deuteronomy 22:5)."

What about cheeseburgers? Does god detest cheeseburgers?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 4, 2015 - 06:12am PT
So many gods with impeccable references.....how to choose?
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 4, 2015 - 06:16am PT
you know i have to say that i find this thread surprisingly refreshing...

sure there are anonymous trolls who throw out emotion based hate, but for the most part this thread shows some of how far we have come in my lifetime regarding this subject...

i'm only seeing one person who is putting forward any kind of an attempt at explaining a basis for their condemnation... if the only minds we have left to effect are the same types of intellect that would have written nasty things about interracial dating and marriage 50 years ago, then we've come a long way baby...

and as the only argument that is being presented, is based on a written code from thousands of years ago and has to be cherry-picked from that code, all the while avoiding the important question that madbolter1 is posing is very encouraging.

and as long as klimmer isn't advocating violence or control of others and is consistent and raises as much of a ruckus regarding other modern blasphemies, a few of which are listed below, i think it's important that we allow space for everyone to live their own lives as they see fit...

 planting more than one kind of seed in a field (leviticus 19:19)
 wearing cloth woven of more than one kind of thread (leviticus 19:19)
 eating food that mixes meat and dairy (exodus 23:19)
 etc. and etc.

so genuine thanks klimmer. while i disagree with you completely and whole heartedly i hope you keep trying to proselytize... the more you try to defend your position, the quicker your argument will be exposed for the hollow and foundationless grasping at straws that it is.



i've realized in the past i sometimes use this board as a proxy for the boomer generation and come on here to rant at some of that generations perceived failings...

in this case i'd like to give a heartfelt thanks to all of you who are publicly taking a stand regarding one color of a rainbow in what is, without doubt, the civil rights fight of my era.

thank you.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 4, 2015 - 06:17am PT
Back to sex change stuff and surgeries, surfed into this article.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120
It has a paywall, so here is a quote:
Policy makers and the media are doing no favors either to the public or the transgendered by treating their confusions as a right in need of defending rather than as a mental disorder that deserves understanding, treatment and prevention. This intensely felt sense of being transgendered constitutes a mental disorder in two respects. The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken—it does not correspond with physical reality. The second is that it can lead to grim psychological outcomes.

The transgendered suffer a disorder of “assumption” like those in other disorders familiar to psychiatrists. With the transgendered, the disordered assumption is that the individual differs from what seems given in nature—namely one’s maleness or femaleness. Other kinds of disordered assumptions are held by those who suffer from anorexia and bulimia nervosa, where the assumption that departs from physical reality is the belief by the dangerously thin that they are overweight. . . .

When children who reported transgender feelings were tracked without medical or surgical treatment at both Vanderbilt University and London’s Portman Clinic, 70%-80% of them spontaneously lost those feelings. Some 25% did have persisting feelings; what differentiates those individuals remains to be discerned.

We at Johns Hopkins University—which in the 1960s was the first American medical center to venture into “sex-reassignment surgery”—launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not. Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as “satisfied” by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery. And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a “satisfied” but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs.

It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription. . . .

At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. “Sex change” is biologically impossible. People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.

So Caitlin...don't go full monty, keep your options open. You never know.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 4, 2015 - 07:43am PT
I was listening with amusement to an old timer and a young gal one time a few years ago and they were talking about how poor they were growing up.
One would say: "I was so poor that yada yada", and the other would reply: "oh yeah? I was so poor that yada yada".
Finally the old timer ended the conversation by saying: "I was so poor growing up I was glad I was a boy".
The young gal said: "What does that have to do with it?"
The old timer replied: "We couldn't afford toys, but at least I had something to play with."

So Caitlin: Keep your options open, you never know.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 4, 2015 - 08:36am PT
Klimmer

G-d made them male. And he made them female. Two separate and different sexes. Many verses throughout the Bible concerning that.


And thus the bible is wrong or at very least extremely incomplete. The difference between male and female is not always very clear or can be combined or missing.

He made people with xxy chromosones (and other unexpected combinations) he made people missing parts of each of those chromosones. He made misreads and over reads of dna regarding developement of sexually relevant physical structures both easily visible and more hidden.. (brain various organs other stuff)

Like I said the bible has many glaring and obvious errors.

For example is this person male or female?

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 4, 2015 - 09:29am PT
The bible is a spiritual manual. Not somuch a physical one ; )
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 4, 2015 - 09:30am PT
SO spiritually is that person male or female?

How can you tell? Since it is physically ambiguous or misleading... Perhaps we should let them figure it out for themselves?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 4, 2015 - 10:21am PT
Spiritual for some....personally, I'll take nature.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 4, 2015 - 10:25am PT
Well if your comparing the deeds of mans flesh there no greater truths anywhere.

The deeds of the material man are fairly easy predictable. You know, cause n effect.
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Jun 4, 2015 - 10:33am PT
God says that men shouldn't wear women's clothing, but is God the one who says what clothing women should wear? Sepp Blatter wants women soccer players to wear hot pants, but then maybe he's got an in with Jesus.
ground_up

Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
Jun 4, 2015 - 10:34am PT
Transgendering seems to be the rage , tattoos & peircings
weren't edgy enough.
Messages 161 - 180 of total 295 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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